[00:00:00] Stephanie Wierwille: Welcome to the No Normal Show, brought to you by BPDA marketing services firm that delivers the future to healthcare’s leading brands. This show is where we leave all things status quo, traditional old school, and boring in the dust, and we celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, all related to the future of healthcare, marketing, and communications.
Hello, I’m Stephanie Wierwille, EVP of Engagement, and I’m joined. By Desiree Duncan, VP of Health Equity and Inclusion, and Chris Bevolo, chief Transformation Officer. Hello, Dez. Hello, Chris.
[00:00:31] Chris: How do,
[00:00:32] Desiree Duncan: Stephanie.
[00:00:33] Stephanie Wierwille: Good Maro. How do
we’ve got our Friday energy back on. I think that we, uh, we were recording a different few weeks back, so I’m sure this, this’ll be a, this’ll be a ride.
So justa few quick notes and then we’ll get into it. Um, first of all, just to cover our agenda, we have, a headline that we’ll talk about in terms of the future of influencer marketing.
Is the influencer marketing bubble burst or not?has it, has it burst or not? Uh, then our main topic today [00:01:00] will be something that we’re calling the Carolina Effect. I’m just gonna leave it there. I’m not gonna spoil it. Not gonna say what it is. Um, but I think it’s, yeah. Ooh, uh, brand, brand new news over here, um, and a trend that we’ve named.
Um, but before we get into all of it, a few quick, uh, updates and, um, just one, one really exciting thing. I think we’ve talked about this before, but I personally am so excited about this. On August 6th, we’re gonna be hosting a webinar called The Future of the Health System Chief Marketing Officer. That’ll be our very own Chris Bevelo, alongside Chris.
Dean Cutler from Baptist Health and Andy Chang from U Chicago Medicine. Um, and we will share a link to register in the episode notes, but we’ll have two chief marketing officers, um, who cover ground of marketing incomes, uh, talking about the future with Chris. And then secondly, we have a newsletter to subscribe to called the No Normal Rewind.
We always share additional information, stats, facts, [00:02:00] links out to, to things that we reference here. Um. And a few extra insights. So check us out there. So, um, actually I’m gonna just, I’m gonna take over for a second before we get into it. I wanted to share with you all Chris and Des something that I was thinking about.
I was on the plane yesterday and I was, you know, as I do on a plane before it takes off. I’m reading like the news, the headlines, wall Street Journal, what’s going on on the world. Um, and something caught my eye and I want your take. You ready?
[00:02:25] Desiree Duncan: Let’s go. Yeah.
[00:02:27] Stephanie Wierwille: okay, so this came from earnings news, but um, my hot take is that Chipotle is over.
It’s dead. It’s no more Chipotle, the restaurant.
[00:02:39] Chris: Whoa.
[00:02:40] Desiree Duncan: What.
[00:02:41] Chris: That is a
[00:02:41] Stephanie Wierwille: and there’s some.
[00:02:42] Chris: beef filled taco Take.
[00:02:44] Stephanie Wierwille: so let me tell you why I think this. Uh, I think, uh, first of all, there was earnings news and it hit their stock as it always does, but it’s not the first quarter where they’ve been soft. They, um, their same store restaurant sales have been down. And I, I had to have a [00:03:00] chuckle about how they talked about why.
They were like, it’s no big deal. We’ve been soft for like four quarters. And they cited everything from storms to wildfires to holidays last year to declining consumer confidence. And I don’t know if you all are Chipotle, fans,
But it got me thinking about the experience and we talk a lot about the experience and marketing and how no amount of marketing can really make up for the experience and how the experience is in, from a brand standpoint.
So important. So anyway, I just, I was just thinking about that, and this is an end of one. Um. But that’s my 2 cent nation take on their earnings.
[00:03:39] Desiree Duncan: You know, I haven’t really. I used to crave Chipotle more often, but like I haven’t in quite a while. And to your point, like, yeah, the, going into the actual like store has been quite a disappointment, uh, kind of lately. And just the same way that I’ve been kind of complaining about like Walgreens. ’cause Walgreens used to be my go-to for everything where like, [00:04:00] ugh, you go in, you’re like, what’s happening? Um, but yeah, it just doesn’t, Ugh. Yeah. I kind of, I don’t, the idea of it being over feels like a lot, but definitely a decline.
[00:04:12] Chris: it’s a
[00:04:12] Desiree Duncan: Chris.
[00:04:14] Chris: other things, then yeah, I could see where it’s going. I could see it going down. I haven’t been in a Chipotle. I like Chipotle. I used to complain about experience when it was a big deal because the line would be out the door and my kids would want to go, and I’m just like, oh my God. It’s like a 45 minute ordeal just to get some kind of sandwich. But the experience was. Good. Like it was friendly people I don’t remember being dirty. Back then it was, you know, very clean. The menus were clean, it was fresh food. It was all the positives other than waiting, but you had to wait because it was positive. So now, I don’t know, I haven’t been in there for a while,
It is like the tables like when you go in, like no one’s like really cleaning the tables. it’s a fast food restaurant, but it’s definitely like the fast food [00:05:00] digitization of it is maybe making it decline. It used to be this kind of middle ground area, but now it’s like fallen into just like, just straight up fast food territory maybe.
[00:05:11] Stephanie Wierwille: we’ll monitor. Um, but I just think it’s, it’s the next subway in terms of their trajectory of like, they hit it really hot. There were lines out the door five years ago, and then I think they pulled back even from a brand marketing standpoint, they pulled back. I just, it’s just the way that these. You know, these leaders were talking about blaming it on everything from storms to wildfires.
I just, my lesson was never, never, never take your foot off the pedal of the experience.
[00:05:37] Chris: Subway’s still around though.
[00:05:40] Stephanie Wierwille: I know, but
[00:05:41] Desiree Duncan: you don’t
[00:05:42] Stephanie Wierwille: it’s
[00:05:42] Desiree Duncan: Subway though, or
[00:05:43] Chris: but like
[00:05:44] Stephanie Wierwille: the last resort.
[00:05:46] Chris: it is the last resort, but it’s still a successful company. So like that kind of puts a ding in your Chipotle’s over. fair to say Chipotle has been relegated to subway status from [00:06:00] hot brand
[00:06:00] Stephanie Wierwille: Yes.
[00:06:02] Chris: That I think is completely fair. will it
[00:06:05] Stephanie Wierwille: Yes. Okay.
[00:06:06] Chris: completely? I don’t know.
[00:06:08] Stephanie Wierwille: No, it’s not gonna die. I, I, um, I will water down my statement, but yeah, it’s been relegated. Okay. Um, well anyway, we’ll watch that and I, I, I hope we’ve stirred up some emotions and listeners and get, get to us on what you think about that. You can fight us on this one.
[00:06:24] Chris: nation’s gonna come for us.
[00:06:26] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. Chipotle nation. Okay, so let’s move into the influencer marketing bubble.
Um, so there was this really, uh, this, this article from Adweek that got us talking, which is around how influencers have really moved from a. Buzzy space to now performance marketing. Um, of course, influencers in the past used to be all about gaining reach and earned media and buzz and clout and brand halo and, and now influencer metrics are more about ROI metrics, like drives and sales affiliate marketing commission, um, and [00:07:00] really used for optimizing, especially in the retail world, um, product sales.
So I’ll just stop this here, since both of y’all read this. What was your, what was your take on this?
[00:07:09] Desiree Duncan: Well, I mean, I definitely see the trend of, you know, like you, you need to show that ROI. Um, but from like an influencer standpoint, I, I think people are. Maybe thinking more about just kind of their own pocket, right? Like you do all this stuff, you put on all this content just to kind of like represent a, a brand, but then there’s this other lane of being able to just get like straight commission, like directly to you. especially if like AI’s taking jobs allegedly, and we have to figure out our own like economy. Um, this feels like that opportunity for those particular folks to be. This. So kind of how the brand, the platforms are integrated more of this, like TikTok shop, they’re integrating just being able to buy, sell, what have you directly into their platforms.
Like there’s gonna be a rise in that, but when you go [00:08:00] to it, it feels so much like the home shopping network. Like I was scrolling through that, I was like. This is awful. This just feels like a just bunch of people just like hawking wares and like, how long is this actually going to last? Like when is this actually gonna get to be like, I don’t know, like better kinds of content.
But that was kind of my first take of looking, looking at all this. It just looked like home shopping network gone
[00:08:23] Stephanie Wierwille: I like HSN.
[00:08:25] Chris: That says a lot.
[00:08:26] Desiree Duncan: Yeah, when it’s well produced, but like just people like yelling into their phone. I’m like, oh, I don’t know.
[00:08:31] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. I guess this article didn’t surprise me personally because I think that, you know. Oh, we, we talk a lot about how impressions are just the beginning point and impressions should not be the end of how you measure something. And so I think it’s always important to incentivize influencers. But more importantly, I like to think of them as long-term partners.
They’re business partners. They’re co-owners. They’re. Freelancers if, if at the very least, um, and they should be always on. And so how do you consider, uh, measuring based on that? Um, [00:09:00] which is tricky in healthcare of course, but we can track, for example, how many people came and got a health screening because of this, um, influencer or, you know, even consider incorporating them into performance of service line programs, things of that nature.
Um, that’s very different than, you know, that’s not affiliate marketing, it’s not giving them commission. We can’t do that, but. We absolutely can treat them as as business partners.
Cool. Cool.
[00:09:24] Desiree Duncan: on your hands the whole time. You’re not gonna say anything.
[00:09:26] Stephanie Wierwille: Say, say something that scares us, Chris.
[00:09:29] Chris: scares you. I don’t have
[00:09:31] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. I don’t know. Oh, okay.
[00:09:33] Chris: a, I have a, I look a scan at the whole sitch. I don’t know if that’s a gen, gen X thing or an old man thing. I mean, I’m on the internet as much as the next human. Um, but yeah, I get, I get the vibe that De is giving, like, these folks are just trying to sell me something.
Like, but it’s very, it, I mean, like, I can’t knock the, the strategy like it works and millions of people [00:10:00] follow creator slash influencers. So who am I? am I with? My silly little opinions. That’s why I’m
[00:10:08] Stephanie Wierwille: Have you never bought from an influencer? Ever?
[00:10:12] Chris: I’d
[00:10:12] Desiree Duncan: You’ve never
[00:10:13] Stephanie Wierwille: Have you never b.
[00:10:14] Chris: I mean, I might’ve been influenced inadvertently. I do not follow any influence. I, I follow idea influencers, so I
[00:10:21] Stephanie Wierwille: That counts.
[00:10:23] Chris: like subscribe to a substack, but I don’t think that’s the same thing. ’cause that that’s not, that’s not somebody selling somebody else’s stuff. That’s somebody selling their own stuff. I buy stuff from people all the time, but not. they’re trying to sell me something from somebody else. I’m sure there’s some example, like, I’m not trying to sound all high and mighty. I just can’t think of any, um, my wife on the other hand would be a, would be a TikTok shop, um, extraordinaire.
I don’t know what the word is. Every once in a while, the [00:11:00] the Amazon guy comes, it’s another TikTok wonder.
[00:11:04] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, that’s me. Every time I open my Instagram app and I open stories and I see anyone who’s an influencer, the dollars just fly outta my wallet. It’s just like they just grow wings and they just fly away and I buy a bag, I buy whatever. So, and they often, they more and more do talk about healthcare.
Prevo is a great example. I want that pre MRI so bad because every celebrity I follow is out there. Chelsea Handler was the late latest one. She’s got an m, a full body. MRII desperately need it
[00:11:31] Chris: don’t
[00:11:31] Stephanie Wierwille: it.
[00:11:31] Chris: a 20 pound chain with a padlock on it.
[00:11:35] Stephanie Wierwille: Right.
[00:11:35] Chris: We will just leave that there.
[00:11:37] Stephanie Wierwille: Okay. Okay. Well let’s go on to our main topic then. Um, so the Carolina Effect, dun. Uh, so as many folks know, we’ve, uh, we launched the future of the CMO Paper, um, I don’t know, several months ago now, and the first opportunity is called the Leadership Whisperer. And so I think we’ve dug into that. We can link in our show notes where we dug into the paper and the Leadership [00:12:00] Whisperer.
But the idea overall is that. CMOs, um, chief Marketing and communications officers, uh, really have an opportunity to become a leadership whisperer, IE to have the Air ear of the C-Suite to provide that overall market, um, overview and opportunity. And so, Chris, I’ll just toss it to you if you wanna explain what the Carolina effect is and, and how you, um, came upon this.
[00:12:23] Chris: interesting because this actually crosses two, it crosses the opportunity that you just shared, Stephanie, and it also co, uh, crosses into the second opportunity in the paper, uh, which is about span and control and specifically around communications. And this really, I think, first came up at the Joe Public retreat in December. We might’ve even talked about it then. Like when it popped in my head, it was then. And then we’ve talked about it more recently, like this is a thing ’cause we’re, now we’re getting stories of this effect. So Carolina, you’re not, first of all, it helps to watch succession, which [00:13:00] does you have Stephanie, you have not.
Right? So if you’ve seen success, you know who Carolina is. She is the head of comms for, um, oh gosh, what’s the name of the company? a stand in
[00:13:12] Desiree Duncan: Waystar Roko,
[00:13:14] Chris: They’re, um, a stand-in for the Murdochs, essentially, and they have the same kind of empire. It’s immediate empire. It’s got cruises, it’s got, it’s got almost everything Fox has. Um, and so Carolina is the head of communications and there is an inner circle throughout the show, and it is the CEO who’s the old man who needs to be succeeded when he passes on. And the whole show’s about which child is gonna do that. sometimes it contains one of the kids, depends who’s in favor, but it always contains, uh, the president, the chief counsel. There’s usually one other advisor and Carolina. And is in there as the head of comms. she’s there [00:14:00] theoretically to help shape the narrative for whatever crisis or strategy they’re debating. But because she’s in that circle, because she’s in that conversation, she’s in that room, she’s actually shaping the decisions. So she’s not just there to listen and go, okay, I hear what you guys are saying now I’ll go. Communicate it, she’s actually influencing what they’re deciding to do. So it’s a two-way street there. And that is a really powerful position to be. And what’s interesting is certainly there is marketing and branding at Waystar Ro you don’t hear about anybody responsible.
They’re like nowhere near, um, these conversations. And so talked about it in, in December, relative to this idea that. has kind of elevated above marketing in terms of how it’s valued, uh, by the C-suite at a lot of, uh, health systems and how do CMOs get in there. And I think at the time we just like, maybe you should just show up like [00:15:00] Carolina. Well, I think the problem with that is, and what we wanna talk about is it can be very difficult for the CMO play that role, and we’re gonna get into examples here. Uh, but we know of a couple of examples where the person who seems to have more in influence. In health systems is somebody who is tied to executive communications, executive visibility, sometimes even reporting into the CMO. But that person has more on what’s going on in the organization because like Carolina, they’re in the room and the CMO is not always in the room. So this is both a threat and an opportunity for CMOs. It’s a threat if you have somebody else. Who’s in, in this ear, this, the CEO’s ear, and has that kind of relationship, uh, because that’s not great for you.
The opportunity is how do you step into Carolina’s shoes and take advantage of the Effect?
[00:15:58] Stephanie Wierwille: Carolina Effect. It’s [00:16:00] a great name. And so, so Chris, I think when you brought this to us, we, we, we were like, Ooh, because it. Feels really right and timely for I think where we are in the, in the industry and marketing and in the space. And so we did a little bit of research, so I’ll just read out a little bit of this and then we can kind of dig into it.
So we, we wanted to see is this happening? To what degree, what do the stats say? Um. The stats agree really, which is that comms is starting to report to CEOs, um, more than ever before. So this is even from over a year ago. Um, there was some research from Axios that 56% of comms teams report to the CEO up 22% from the year before.
And in fact, those reporting to A CMO fell, um, from 63. 37%. Um, at the same time, there’s an Edelman study that shows that c CCOs, 64%, the majority are included about discussion. So they are the Carolinas of the world. Um, and they’re included before the decisions are [00:17:00] made compared to 9% that are informed after the fact.
This didn’t surprise me just given the role of comms, which is, you know, you have to protect reputation. You’re there when an issue hits. Um, you’re there when, before a merger decision is made. All of that right? The, these are the things that are. Going viral that are causing the CEO and the C-suite and the board, the biggest headaches.
And you are the, the fixer, you’re the Olivia Pope, if you will. Um, so that’s what the stats say. Um, but how did this feel to you all, at least anecdotally, um, in terms of experience?
[00:17:31] Desiree Duncan: Yeah, it, it, it felt interesting to me. It, it kind of makes sense when I think about like those folks that have the ear of the CEO, um, they do kind of fall on the fall. Um, comms, I’m also thinking about kind of that, some of that chief of staff role. Um, but I started thinking about it also kind of depends on the. You know, moment that your organization is in, you know, the size, the history of it. Whereas when you’re thinking about marketing, you’re in growth mode and you’re [00:18:00] just, you’re marketing your product. You’re trying to get your name out there, especially if you’re an a startup, right? once you’re a bit more established, it is more about navigating that reputation.
Where comms comes in, it’s more important because you are making some of these bigger decisions that affect. Have more of a ripple effect. So you need that council there. Um, that isn’t necessarily just about marketing, so it’s like how do you get in that room to be, um, kind of that voice of, um, to share that it, but yeah, it, it got me thinking about the, the types of, um, organizations and kind of the season that they’re in, I guess in a way
[00:18:36] Chris: Yeah, that’s a good way to think about
[00:18:37] Desiree Duncan: I know.
[00:18:38] Chris: season. like the seasonality of trends in this space. That’s a great way to put it. We should, we should figure that out as another thought leadership thing. Um, our friend Andy Chang talks about that a lot, how things come in and out, like experience comes in and out and comms comes in and out and we’re gonna shrink our internal teams and then we’re gonna expand like all these things. Um, I think the other aspect of this, to [00:19:00] build on what you’re saying, Des, is at the end of the day, the CEO. Cares about the growth of the organization. She cares about the brand, she cares about those things. But what does she care about most? Right? She’s not an AI bot, at least not yet. a human.
She cares about herself. wants to know what’s in it for me. And so the person who is most. to shape the profile of the CEO in terms of proactive narratives, in terms of dealing with crisis, in terms of picking a path that’s going to, of course be good for the organization. But what’s gonna elevate me, that person is gonna be who the CEO calls. And, and if your only role is the organization, which is typically what A CMO does, um. They don’t see you as that personal connection. And I think that’s [00:20:00] a, an element of this that is critical to understand, which is why it’s important for CMOs to really pay attention to who does have that, who is responsible for executive visibility.
Because even if that person reports to you, they may be building a relationship that supersedes your own with the CEO, and that is not a place you want to be.
[00:20:22] Desiree Duncan: It got me. All of this kind of got me thinking about even just kind of the roles or even the, um, the way that we perform our roles, um, throughout our day to day marketing versus comms. when I’m working with comms folks, like they’re constantly, they are well aware of the headlines, what’s going on. They know, you know, what’s gone out about their organization. Competitors, like they, they know the news factor of it. Right? And as a marketer, you’re thinking more about, or maybe you’re reading more headlines around, like some marketing trends, you know, what’s going on maybe with the product, the service, um, a little bit with your competitors, but not looking at that news cycle the same way [00:21:00] that a comms person, which gives more. Um, thinking about the strategy or how this, uh, action is going to affect and have this ripple effect. Um, so in a way I’m thinking like, for marketers, like getting more on those headlines and understanding kind of what’s shifting in the markets like our, I mean, maybe we’re not all of us or Stephanie, we’re into the, um, the Wall Street Journal, looking at it from that perspective.
But this is an example of like where you can actually start to be paying more attention to, to become more of that whisperer.
[00:21:30] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, and that’s where, I mean, it’s a, it’s a true revenue issue. It’s a reputation issue. It’s, you know, if I, if you’ve put on your, your C-suite hat, you’re constantly trying to figure out what are the tides saying. And I think healthcare is more volatile than it’s ever been before this year. We probably say that every year, maybe since 2020.
I don’t know. But it’s like constantly more and more volatile. And so what volatility means is that it’s back and forth and up and down. And so there’s really a leaned [00:22:00] in on the short term, on the React. Um, and you know, marketing has traditionally been more long term as it should be. And we’re not saying down with marketing I think Don’t, don’t hear that.
But to Chris’s point on the seasonality of things, um, that seasonality perhaps is getting shorter and shorter, and I would predict that it will get shorter and shorter. The change will become faster and faster. And so how do you use realtime data to even inform what is the trend du jour and how do you handle it?
[00:22:28] Chris: And it’s interesting you say 2020 because. Uh, was a big year for a couple reasons. It was a big year because of COVID and it was a big year because of social justice and a lot of leaders faced a lot of really difficult messaging decisions at that time. For both those reasons, in a similar situation now where what you say is A CEO could benefit or cost your organization millions of dollars of the way things are happening right now out there in the world.
And so. [00:23:00] More than ever how CEOs think about what they say, who they say it to, um, has an impact in a way that maybe it never has. Right? It’d be very difficult four years ago or 10 years ago, or anytime in the past for a CEO to say something moderately within the range of, of messaging that’s going to cost or benefit you. You know, in a material way that is true today. If you say the wrong thing today, you, you really could be costing your organization something. So now more than ever, CEOs have to be thinking about, oh my gosh. you also have to be careful of the alternative, right? So that person is going to have an elevated role again.
And to Stephanie, to your point, and, and des earlier. isn’t like a one time deal where like, oh, we gotta figure this out and it’s done. This is gonna be the situation for a few years and it could pop up at any time. Who is the [00:24:00] CEO calling at the famous question? Right? Who are they calling at three in the morning? are they calling at Friday afternoon when something pops? Right? if you’re the CMO and somebody else has that relationship, even if they report to you. You want that to be you. So yeah, we’re not dinging CMOs at all. This is where the opportunity comes. Find a way to be that, that ear.
[00:24:26] Desiree Duncan: And when you say popped, I think now things are popping because of social media, right? So yes. 2020, you know, more CEOs were tasked with needing to, you know, make statements, take a stand on items. But the reason why a lot of this is able to pop and be shared, it’s because of social media bef, you know. years ago, we would’ve had to, uh, me as a consumer some kind of op-ed that goes into the newspaper.
Like there was, there wasn’t this like two-way dialogue the way that there is now from the, um, [00:25:00] from just like a regular person that’s really kind of making things blow up more than, I don’t know they need to at times, but,
[00:25:05] Chris: I mean, yes.
[00:25:06] Desiree Duncan: uh.
[00:25:07] Chris: I’m talking about, I suppose this is still from social media. I’m talking about some higher level national situations that we read about in the news every day. This is news. It certainly sometimes comes through social media channels. Um. But I’m talking about scrutiny on healthcare organizations from all quarters. Can be media, can be politicians, can be governments, state, federal, local. Uh, that is, that is the situation that I was referring to. That is we’ve never had that before where somebody points, points the spotlight at you in the wrong way because of what you said or how you respond. It could lead to, who knows what is that
[00:25:56] Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, and to, to your point, it’s not always a [00:26:00] C Tesla example or a astronomer example, right? It’s not, it could be that of something that a CMO
[00:26:07] Chris: reference.
[00:26:08] Stephanie Wierwille: in the. That case, I think who, the first one they called was their head of hr. Oh, bonum. But anyway, um, but it’s not always that, right? It could just be something that an influencer says, something that a journalist says, some, some tide that shifts in policy.
I think it’s just that the, see the, the waves of change are just moving so quickly. And I don’t have any of you seen the show re the rehearsal?
[00:26:31] Chris: Uh, I keep
[00:26:31] Stephanie Wierwille: Um.
[00:26:32] Chris: but I have
[00:26:33] Stephanie Wierwille: Okay, you need to watch it because it’s the exact opposite of what we’re talking about, which I think is what we all crave. So I won’t go too deep into this, but it’s basically like rigorous scenario planning to make sure that nothing in life is unpredictable.
To make sure that no matter what happens, that you are prepared for it. And I think that’s where the chief communications officer, in a way, can step in is number one, helping to make sure that you’re prepared for any exam, any scenario. And number two, to really be [00:27:00] reactive to it because what’s the biggest fear that we all.
Have as humans is change and unpredictability. And so in an unpredictable environment, you need somebody, you need a steady voice that can solve things for you.
[00:27:12] Desiree Duncan: And I’m not talking about the frivolity of social media from like, you know, like Instagram. I’m talking about like the advent of OG Twitter, that became such a reputable news source. People were being quoted based off of like what they tweeted That, and that was the, the spot for news. And that’s how it traveled at rapid speed that we didn’t have, you know, 15, 20 years ago.
[00:27:36] Chris: and I mean, that’s still true. Does and TikTok to me. I still get breaking news from TikTok before anywhere else. Right. And you have to be really smart about it. You have to go, boy, is that real? And then you have to go find a, a reputable news source to confirm it. that, and social media is where I get my news.
So that could be a Substack newsletter, that could be a, um, some other newsletter that I’ve subscribed to. So [00:28:00] email still is involved in that. Um. all that’s right. It’s just, it’s coming from everywhere. but we’re in an environment. I think the one thing that is different is we’re in an environment where the wrong misstep has implications beyond anything we’ve seen before. Um, so we be Carolina.
[00:28:22] Stephanie Wierwille: We.
[00:28:23] Chris: sorry.
[00:28:23] Stephanie Wierwille: right, that’s right. Okay. So before we wrap up, um, you already mentioned Chris, a few things to be the. Thinking about what this means for marketing leaders, what this means for communications leaders. Um, are there any more that we wanna kind of leave with in terms of, of key takeaways here?
[00:28:40] Chris: Well I think you said it earlier. way to get in the ear if you’re not there is to be proactive. So that does speak to the first recommendation, which is be the voice of the market. Bring things to your CEO that he or she needs to know about and think about. [00:29:00] recommendations that he or she may not be thinking about. that bridge, build that trust, get it to a point where they are turning to you, they’ve come to rely on you. Right? And then you’ll start getting invited to more of the conversations. And again, the, the secret here is if you’re in those conversations. You are going to shape the decisions. That’s the power that Carolina had if you watched the show, So, but you can’t just jump right in to the deep end. If you don’t have that now, you’re gonna have to build it, but you can try to push it. You don’t wait for an opportunity or a crisis. Build things, um, on a regular basis if you have to. And then on a Saturday night, go, oh my gosh, did you see this? Be ready.
We’re gonna have to be ready for this.
[00:29:45] Stephanie Wierwille: All right, so you heard it here first, the Carolina Effect, a. As a build on
maybe.
[00:29:52] Chris: I mean, I’ve never heard El say it, but like odds are if you Google, somebody’s figured that out. But what,
[00:29:59] Stephanie Wierwille: You’re [00:30:00] right, we didn’t Google the Carolina effect in those words. Maybe we can, we can do that as a follow up. And if we find something out there, we’ll drop it in our show notes. Um, and we can say, you heard it here second. You heard it here, second, third. Um, so for anyone listening, um, don’t forget, we wanna hear from you.
Uh, shoot us an email at no normal@bpdhealthcare.com. Tell us if you are part of the Chipotle nation and you hard disagree with our take earlier, or if you have anecdotes you wanna share as part of the Carolina Effect, we would love to hear it. And as always, we’d love your thumbs up on iTunes, Spotify, mash that like button.
And until next time, don’t be satisfied with the normal. Don’t be satisfied. Um, yeah, with, with with Chipotle, um.
[00:30:45] Chris: satisfied with dirty tables.
[00:30:48] Stephanie Wierwille: That’s right. Push the no normal, and we’ll talk to you soon.
[00:30:52] Chris: Byeee
