Stephanie Wierwille: [00:00:00] Welcome to the new normal show, brought to you by BPD. This is where we leave all things status quo, traditional old school, and boring in the dust, and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, while delivering the future to healthcare’s leading brands. I’m Stephanie Weirwille, EVP of Engagment here at BPD, and I’m joined by Desiree Duncan, b VP of Health, equity and Inclusion.
Hello, Des. Hi.
Desirée Duncan: Happy Friday. Sun
Stephanie Wierwille: is shining. Happy
Desirée Duncan: Friday.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yes, we’re on week three of the Friday Vibe Train. I think. Um, and this is gonna really, really be a, a fun episode. We have a special guest, Mario Nichols, brand strategy and growth specialist. Hi Marie. Hi.
Mario Nichols: It’s so good to be here. I’m so excited.
Stephanie Wierwille: I’m so excited to have you here.
So, for those who don’t know, Mari, um, Mari’s been on the show before, but he’s, uh, really the voice behind the show. He is our producer and he makes all the magic happen behind the scenes. And today he is center [00:01:00] stage, uh, because he has some really exciting topics to talk about. Um, Mari you always do such a great job of finding the, the trends and.
Spotting the culture and, and sharing it with us so that we are really, really, uh, ready to talk about great things. And I think today you spotted some really interesting trends, so we wanted you to share directly.
Mario Nichols: Yeah, I’m super excited to get into it. Um, yeah. Culture is, is so important to me. Always, like staying in, I know with like, with what’s happening and just being able to like bring that back to work is like a really cool thing.
So.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yes. Awesome. So today we’re gonna cover, um, we’re gonna cover a really interesting headline and that is around the White House, uh, announcement of their AI literacy initiative. So we’ve been talking about AI quite a bit on the show, and we think that this is actually a pretty big moment societally. So we’ll get into that.
Um, and then our main topic today is gonna be about a shift that we’re seeing in the ownership of media. So we’ve discussed before how media has become more fragmented than ever [00:02:00] before. Um, but this time I think we’re seeing even more of a trend around consumers taking media into their own hands. So we’ll talk about that and the culture shift along with it.
Uh, before we do, speaking of culture. I know you all have been sharing some interesting things that you’ve been watching, seeing, looking at. Um, so Mari, I’ll, I’ll kick it to you first. Uh, what, what have you been looking at seeing, watching out there in the world?
Mario Nichols: Yeah, so it, it came out a little bit later in the year I wanna say, but, um, Mufasa, the Lion King.
Um, so it’s pretty much like the origin story of Mufasa, the one that we know and love so much from the Lion King. And, um, it was, I wanna say directed by Barry Jenkins, who is also known for a couple of like, amazing a 24 movies like Moonlight. Um, and if Bill Street could, could talk and yes, I think it was beautiful.
Yeah, it was. So beautiful. Um, and it just kind of really shed light also like [00:03:00] on kind of like scar’s origin story. And I don’t know, I kind of like started empathizing with Scar ’cause I was like, oh my God. Like I, I can see it. I understand why you’re so mad.
Desirée Duncan: ‘ cause I know like when the original Lion King is out, people are like, what is this guy’s problem? What is scar’s problem? I don’t understand. Um, but okay, good to know that we actually get more background on what, what actually happened. What was the tea?
Mario Nichols: and I just, that, that to like what you’re saying, des like 1000% agree, but also I think if, if anyone watches it, like you should watch it because it’s really stunning.
Like, and you can just kind of see like the evolution of like CGI, um, in the sense where, um, it just looks very realistic and I don’t know if CGI is like the correct term for this, but. Um, yeah, it just looks super realistic. So,
Stephanie Wierwille: I, I, I think it’s interesting to see the trend around, um, empathy, even in animated movies and children’s movies, you know, like, um, all of the [00:04:00] Disney backstories on the evil characters.
And I think it just says something about where we are in culture right now, where we’re trying to figure out, you know, the psyche of folks. Um, but Des how about you?
Desirée Duncan: Yeah, I have been, um, I, I have one thing that Mufasa, I didn’t realize Barry Jenkins did this film, so now I’ll actually check it out. ’cause I’m not like a big Disney person.
I like, I feel like everybody like is obsessed with Disney, but I’m obsessed with Barry Jenkins and directors and, uh, so I’ll check it out. But speaking of, of sessions, sinners. I am really appreciating all of the conversations and dialogue and dissecting of this film, of course, by another, up and coming, legendary director, uh, Kler and I.
The story, this is his first opportunity to really get to tell a story that’s uniquely his, um, you know, beyond telling the Black Panther story or Fruitville, um, station, like stories of, you know, [00:05:00] things that have happened to other folks. So I’m, yeah, I’ve seen it twice already. Uh, I saw it like opening weekend, just kind of on a, like, yeah, let’s go see this film, film.
And then blown away. And then I went like three days later to see it in imax, uh, after seeing all of the other thing pieces. But have either of you seen it yet?
Mario Nichols: Yeah, I also saw it, um, a couple of weeks ago. Um, and I will say it’s yes, like I think it was just so amazing. So it’s, it’s interesting because it’s technically a horror movie, but I feel like it’s such a touching story about ancestry in, in so many ways.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, which is, so, it’s, it’s very weird, but it’s very like, I don’t know, amazing at the same time. And, um, at, for what I know, like. I didn’t really see it being promoted, um, a lot before it came out, but you know, word of mouth is like real, and like when you hear Ryan Kugler’s name, it’s like, oh, like this person is gonna do amazing things.
I. Also like, obviously like [00:06:00] Michael B. Jordan, who’s also amazing, uh, who also started in the movie. He was amazing in it. And I don’t know, like, I think, um, when you hear those two names and you know, they also worked together on Creed. So it’s just, it was just, you could tell like it was just gonna be like an amazing movie and like, definitely was.
Um, even when Ryan Coogler, like he came out with like a, a video talking about like, which, um. Version to see this film in. So you could see like an IMAX and like, um, four D and I don’t know, just him talking about like filming things in IMAX was just amazing. So that’s what inspired me to like watch it in IMAX as well.
I.
Stephanie Wierwille: Wow, you are both cinema files and Mario, you’re giving us all the background on the directors and I, I can’t, I can’t, uh, I can’t hang. Um, I’ve been watching something far less, um, intellectual, I suppose, which is, uh. The last season of you on Netflix, so I know it’s been pretty buzzy. Um, it’s, [00:07:00] it’s number one right now this week.
Um, I’m not gonna say much about it. Not gonna spoil it. You is always a rollercoaster. All I’m gonna say is I think there’s a theme and I’ve now discovered the layers of societal meaning in the series, which I think comes pretty clear at the end of this, this season. Um. I’m just gonna say that, but it definitely got me pondering and thinking some, some bigger things than just, you know, than I was before, which was just, you know, like murder and horror and violence.
Desirée Duncan: So. Well, if you’re saying that there’s a deeper societal kind of touchstone on it, then like, I am, I’m in, I think I, I’ve seen the first two seasons, I didn’t see the last thir the third season, which I feel like I heard was like a departure, but, all right, I’ll, I’ll jump back in.
Stephanie Wierwille: It got better. Okay, so let’s, um, speaking of societal meaning, I think we, our, our real, our main topics here, first our headline and our main topic, um, are some pretty big meaty things.
So, Des you noticed hot off the press that the White House declared an AI [00:08:00] literacy, um, initiative. They, they declared that AI literacy is now a national imperative. Uh, and the Trump administration signed an executive order around AI education, uh, even in, in K through 12 schools. So. Give us the dets.
Desirée Duncan: So, I mean, ba basically what we’re seeing is a task force is being set up for this.
They’re, you know, wanting to create policy around this, uh, task force that should be set up, I think within the first like 90 days. And it’s going to include, you know, multiple members of, um. Essentially the cabinet, so Secretary of Agriculture, labor, energy education, um, to be a part of this. But what was really, um, so interesting to me was around the idea of, you know, putting this into curriculum, that this is almost essentially a, a mandate, and that with the improving education through artificial intelligence.
Push that we’re gonna be providing resources for K through 12, uh, education. And so, you know, how do we do that? And [00:09:00] especially, you know, in a time where it feels like, you know, education is kind of under the gun right now, but seeing actually that there is this importance of, um, continuing but just giving such stature to AI just gave pause of like, okay.
This is real. This isn’t this thing that you can ignore or keep your head in the sand around. Like this is, are, your kids are learning about this. And in a way it kind of reminded me of this was, oh my gosh, uh, 20 years ago, maybe at this point, uh, when I was working with the Clark County School District, um, out in Nevada.
This is Las Vegas’s school district. There was a big push and they were, um, the school district was providing a lot of opportunities for students to learn Mandarin, uh, as well as other languages. ’cause there was a feeling of like, this is gonna be very important for our students to know and understand, um, how to communicate with, you know, more global, like globalization.
Um, so this is a another stunning example of like [00:10:00] where, you know. Kind of foreseeing the future, but then also making sure that our folks are prepared, our students are prepared. So then what does that mean for us as adults, as marketers who are not in school? Like, ah, what, what do we need to do?
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, it, it.
It is a, it’s a big, it feels like a moment. Um, I think that we’ve been talking about on the show the importance of AI literacy and the importance even inside of organizations of literacy. Um, but this is just even more of a push in that direction. So something that I’ve been thinking about a lot, uh, on this topic de is, this is not, this is not anything like, okay, here’s how to use a calculator.
It’s not that, and. As I’ve become more and more of an AI user, AI obsessed user, I should say, um, what I’ve realized is it’s actually not. Even if you try to outsource your thinking, and if you think that AI is gonna outsource people’s thinking and make us just. Dumb as a [00:11:00] society. I think that’s a, um, unsophisticated use of ai.
And I saw this really interesting LinkedIn conversation about how the best way to teach AI in schools is actually about teaching, thinking, and critical thinking because. You know, a robot can give us an answer and it can give us a framework and it could give us some options, but you as the user, as the student in this case, or as the marketer in our case, it is your job to really pressure test, push.
Brainstorm blue sky thinking, develop it. Right? And so I hope, I don’t know, but I hope that as schools move forward that they’re not teaching how to use the tools alone, but they’re teaching how to think. And so if you’re a CMO and a marketing leader, how are you thinking about for your team? What does that mean for your skill sets?
What does that mean? Um, for, you know, how you, how you create AI literacy internally? Um, it’s a really big deal.
Desirée Duncan: I definitely see [00:12:00] this as the green flag of if you haven’t, if you’ve been hesitant, like now is the time, um, because things are about to change and that folks really, really need to get up to speed.
But what’s what’s, but what’s great about this moment though, is that it’s an even playing field. Right now. But if, especially if this is getting put into, uh, education programs, uh, K through 12, then people are going to be getting, you know, leaps and, uh, bounds ahead of us on this. Um, but one other thing, I, I again, ’cause I always like to tie things back to like history and like kind of where we’ve been to see where we’re going.
I think back when I was a kid and if you had this super niche interest, you had to. Go to the bookstore, find that book, find that magazine, comb through that section to find and like fuel your, uh, understanding of that interest. And then, you know, once we got the, the internet, uh, in our pockets and really accessible, um, and we’re then able to start to create our own content and shared [00:13:00] knowledge across, uh, channels, young people had more access.
So they’re more aware of things that maybe we would have to go and jump through all these hoops. Now with ai, um, you know, essentially we. It’s, we can learn any topic we want, you know, and it, it’s not necessarily about becoming a master in it, but we have such access to just really understanding and that it’s not just about, kind of, as you were saying, it’s about like using that critical thought of, um, you know, how do we process and not just relying on tools to feed us an answer that we don’t have any kind of context for.
So
Stephanie Wierwille: yeah,
Desirée Duncan: really, really exciting times.
Stephanie Wierwille: I love that assessment. And I guess we’ll just wrap this headline with the, this is your green flag moment. As as you said, Des, this is the green flag moment to, um, if you’ve not been leaning all the way in, uh, now’s the time. So, okay. Let’s move on to our main topic. Um, so Mari, I’m gonna really toss this to you to set up.
You found something really, really cool and you shared it with the group and, and I think as we talked about it, we realized there was a lot of layers to [00:14:00] this both around. Culture, media usage, but also marketing. So tell us what you saw.
Mario Nichols: Yeah, so first huge Beyonce fan over here. And, um, um, as, as some people may know, Beyonce, um, started her Cowboy Carter tour, um, Monday, and it was amazing.
It was incredible. She’s an icon. We all know this. Um, but one of the things that, that really stood out to me was the fact that a lot of us who weren’t at the show Monday had access. To see this show live, um, through TikTok and like Instagram and I, it was such an incredible moment because like, it really brought people together, um, in the comments obviously.
And we were, it was, it was like a party. And, and I think, I know in previous episodes Des has talked about, you know, black Twitter and how, um, in black Twitter, like. During cultural moments, we kind of all come together and, you know, talk about this one thing. And [00:15:00] it’s, it’s just so fun and like meaningful.
And I felt like with what happened on Monday, it was even on a bigger level where like people from across the world were like tuning in to like watch being Beyonce perform for two hours and 45 minutes. And so, um, I, I think, you know, it kind of came to me and I wondered like, you know, how can brands like, you know, think more about having like these moments or.
Rather how, how are they seeing consumers kind of own medium in this, I mean, not medium, but media in this way. Um, because that’s pretty much what it is. It’s it’s consumer ownership of, of media. Um, so yeah, that’s, that’s what encouraged me and inspired me to bring this to the conversation today.
Desirée Duncan: Well, I, let’s unpack this.
How did this even come to be? Is this because with this particular tour that she’s not going to as many cities as she has in the past, so it’s, it’s almost like a bit of a scarcity of having access to go.
Mario Nichols: I didn’t think of that, but that makes so much sense. Like that makes so much sense. And because it was like, I wanna say like [00:16:00] on one person’s like live stream, it was like at least 20,000 of us.
It, it was crazy because like obviously like they’re, they’re trying to, they’re gonna like leverage and like capitalize off of this moment. So they were like. Hey, y’all need to gift this. Like, y’all need to like, like let me send in your, like my cash app to you. And like we were paying them. I mean, like they, they were doing the good work for us, but yeah, I, I didn’t, I didn’t think about that.
But you know, it also creates opportunity for those who, you know, aren’t able to afford, you know, these stickers, which were very expensive. I even bought one for, um. Ju, um, July 7th date in DC and it was expensive. So it just gives people opportunity who can’t afford it, especially like during this challenging time, um, with our economy, um, to just be able to see Beyonce.
Um, yeah, and I think also I knew, I had friends who were like, Hey, like I, I deal with anxiety. Um, I don’t like being in large spaces. And so it also created an opportunity for them to like see this like in their home. So.
Desirée Duncan: Yeah, [00:17:00] when you mentioned the, the idea of this feels more, ’cause like you’re basically you’re live casting the, the concert, which I guess we can do that now.
Uh uh They didn’t take our phones. Um, but it reminded me essentially of this came, this came out with the, earlier this year. The White House Press Secretary essentially noting that, Hey, I want to give space for consumer reporters, uh, because trust in media has been waning for years and it’s, you know, hit a, a whole new mark.
Uh, this particular, uh. Year and administration. Um, but that idea of opening it up and then also the influence that, you know, individual podcasters and those who kind of own their own piece of media were able to leverage, um, their own platforms for these candidates. Um, and that candidates were going to these other new media, uh, mediums to, to really, uh, reach people because people aren’t, uh, in the news, aren’t in the traditionals anymore.
But I, I’m [00:18:00] curious, Stephanie, your thoughts.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, media has completely changed and that feels like the understatement of the century because we’ve been watching the evolution for, you know, of course it changed from traditional to digital and then from digital into social and you know, that was a democratization moment.
And then the fragmentation of media and the echo chambers. And I think now we’re seeing the next era, the next phase, which Mari, I love, you know, what you said of, you know, people taking it back into their own hands and um. Given the fact that ma, mainstream media and mass media, it does have a major trust issue.
I’m talking about like the CNN’s of the world, the Foxes of the world. That used to be it just you. You didn’t even question, right? It was just objective. You didn’t even. You never stop to say, is that true? But I’ve been thinking a lot about what got us here, and I’m gonna go down this rabbit hole for one second and then bring it back to the live streaming.
But I’ve been thinking about what got us here and the race into digital [00:19:00] of that, that news outlets did. Um, of course, you know. Was a revenue challenge that they faced where, because news became free, quote unquote, where you used to pay for your newspapers. Then there became this race into clickbait headlines because they had to get clicks so they could get advertising dollars.
And then that became all of a sudden this race into, you know, high emotion forward news because that’s what creates shares. So I don’t think that’s. New to anybody, but I think that all of that has led to this really weird space we’re in where no one trusts the mainstream. They don’t trust the mass. And so they trust the niche.
They trust the people. They trust the literal hands that are live and feet and eyes that are live at the concert to tell them what’s going on and to give their point of view. Um, and so from a brand standpoint, this has major impacts because many brands are still running ad dollars on the mainstream mass.
[00:20:00] Media, and I don’t just mean news, I mean broadly. Why? Because the reach is still there. But I think the key question is, does reach even matter anymore? Um, yes it does. Yes. But, but it’s, it’s different, right? And so. Anyway, that’s my whole media diatribe. Um, but I think all of this has led to what you’re seeing with that Beyonce phenomenon of live streaming.
And it, it means, okay, how do brands show up in those moments when we’re not Beyonce as a brand? Let’s be real. We’re not.
Desirée Duncan: Yeah. And I’ve been seeing an uptick in, you know, when I do Google search, uh, which feels like I don’t as much anymore ’cause ai, um, but I’ve been seeing more of the, um. Conversations on the subreddits really becoming a bit more prioritized.
And to your point, Stephanie, about people wanting to hear from other humans, wanting to hear from other humans about this product because like so much is paid for. So then it’s like, what is real? I think about [00:21:00] like, uh, some of the. Um, product reviews on sites that should go unnamed. Um, where a lot of it now definitely feels like, is this an actual review of the product or is this kind of a paid, like, you know, sponsorship, you, this person was shipped this product just to point, uh, to a.
A positive review or provide a positive review. And so now I find myself, uh, Reddit’s been around for a very long time, but it kind of sat within this niche world of like a, a techie, uh, or gamers or what have you, a place for them to communicate with one another. Uh, but now it’s really expanded. Like you can find it in niche, kind of niche.
So. Let’s say you’re looking for ai, but then it’s like, okay, are you looking for this particular tool or this particular activation of it, this particular, you know what I mean? Like, you can go down the rabbit hole, uh, or if you’re like in the e-bikes like myself, like when I was trying to like discover which one I wanted to, the new one I wanted to get, you can go to the individual, uh, subreddits for that particular brand and like, anyways, [00:22:00] it’s, it just really hearkens back to, in which I’d be, I’m always trying to push like, hey.
Go to where the people are and find ways to authentically connect with it and conversations on the level that they want to be actually reached. Not just like telling things at them, but actually answering their questions and engaging with them.
Mario Nichols: Yeah. I, I just wanna say like even this morning I was on Reddit trying to like look at which like shoes I want to get for running shoes, so.
Yes, that reads, I, I definitely think we are wanting to hear more from humans. Like, um, just kind of get beyond what the brands are like trying to sell us and like really hear authentic reviews and authentic feedback on different products. So, um, a thousand percent agree with you. And also like, yeah, Reddit has like a lot of interesting stories.
I don’t know if y’all ever like just look into like the stories that you see on Reddit, but it’s, it’s definitely a, a place to go get. A lot of entertainment from people.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yes. Entertainment. Um, but yeah, to your point, Mari, and, [00:23:00] and you know about where you’re looking for reviews from real people in Reddit for shoes and Des you’re talking about we don’t want fake ratings and reviews.
I’m gonna take it to healthcare for a second. And healthcare is the, probably the most word of mouth driven industry there is, right? Mm-hmm. Like we know people don’t choose a hospital. They choose a doctor. And how do they choose a doctor? Sorry. It’s not by the doctor’s credentials. Always it is by a friend telling them, Hey, I had a really good experience.
And so, you know, that’s just the way that the industry has worked forever. And so from a brand standpoint, yes, advertising matters. Yes, you need mass reach, but also, what’s the new word of mouth? I think that’s kind of what we’re talking about here. And the new word of mouth is everything from, let me show you what I’m doing in this moment.
Let me show you the live stream. You know, let me show you my point of view. Lemme tell you my opinion. Um, but I think what’s changed is where that’s happening and the moments it’s happening and the virality around [00:24:00] it. And just like how refreshing that feels as a user because we are so sick. We are so sick and tired of the fake.
We’re tired of the fake, you know, influencer plugs. We’re tired of the fake reviews. We’re tired of the, we’re already tired of the fake AI headlines. Um. There’s nothing more refreshing than people to people, even when it’s through a screen.
Desirée Duncan: And it’s a, the gatekeeping we’re tearing down the gates. Uh, the fact that these folks were, you know, at the con, which I don’t know why, but like when I said earlier about like, oh, are we allowed to just show ’em?
Like, well, yeah, you have your phone, you can take photos, you can video, you can also like just live stream it. And in a way you’re giving access where there isn’t. And so, um, not that I’m trying to like, you know, take money out of Beyonce’s pockets with ticket sales, but I mean, you can only sell so many tickets, right?
You can, you know, you can only. So many. Um, but I think about the idea of a lot of stuff is gate kept. And to your point, Stephanie, about like kind of the evolution where, you know, [00:25:00] newspapers you could have back in the day buy them for what, a dollar 25 or something at the newspaper stand and then went online because digital and then there was the paywall.
Um, and then there’s like the sub stacks and like everything has like some kind of gate around it. Uh, which I get it. To pay your bills. Um, I, I, I get that, but like, if you already have advertisers that are advertising in it, shouldn’t we have access to it just to be able to read the thing? But anyways, I love that people are taking things back in their own hands and, um, you know, removing the gates, tearing, storming the gates in order to give access to, to, to more and more folks.
Stephanie Wierwille: I think what this, what inspires me about this, and Mari, you, you know, you brought this to us as like a, here’s something fun we could talk about. Here’s a headline and it turned into a main topic very quickly. ’cause I think it inspired us in all the ways that we’re talking about. But one thing that inspires me as a marketer is.
We’re always trying to create the next viral moment, and we have no business half the time as brands to be like, we’re [00:26:00] gonna make this go viral. Right? But what we do have business in is understanding culture and understanding what people want to hear and from whom. And so I’m not saying partner with Beyonce, I.
You know, that’s a impossible budget scenario, but I am saying two things. One is, who are the niche creators that your audiences are interested in? A, that’s a whole track you can go down. The other thing that interests me is many, many brands, healthcare organizations, health systems included, spend a ton on sponsorships and what are sponsorships?
Usually is just a logo slapped onto things that you agree in your contracts, but shouldn’t they be more about moments and cultural moments? A sponsorship is just usually around, it’s a package around what would otherwise be a really awesome cultural moment or event or, or what have you. And so I think this is a cool, interesting example of, no, we’re not Beyonce.
No, we’re not gonna partner with her, but what can we do through our [00:27:00] existing moments that we’re tied to that are really, really unique? That can actually create a human connection that’s not just a logo on the back of a. Soccer kit.
Desirée Duncan: Yeah, I mean, when I think about sponsorships, I immediately kind of go to, um, like pride festivals.
Like Pride is happening next month and it always feels like, and there’s a lot of backlash to this, where it feels like this is performative. You’re just rainbow washing, you are coming in just. To show that you’re connected to us, mostly just to kind of get, um, more consumers on your side or a part of you.
But like from a healthcare standpoint, I’m always thinking about the fact that, okay, as you know, members of the lgbtq ai plus community, we have organs, uh, we have bones, we have hearts that need care. Talk to us more about that. It doesn’t, you don’t have to come in with this like little pithy slogan or sleigh queen or whatever, like [00:28:00] cringe thing that your advertising is gonna say, but actually create a authentic connection around, you know, what we’re dealing with from a health standpoint.
You know, our health is who we are is beyond, you know, our once sexuality. But just finding those in interesting moments to actually have that real conversation with, that the human, and not just with the, the identity of them.
Stephanie Wierwille: I love that. Oh, yes. Um, yeah. So as a brand, brands can be there in the moments that matter.
They can create the conversations that matter. Um, I don’t know, this just, I think this just really inspires me and it gets my wheels turning. So thank you again, tamari, for bringing this topic.
Desirée Duncan: We definitely went everywhere when as soon as you mentioned, I was like, oh, that, that makes me think of this and this and this.
But I think Stephanie, to your point, it really just sheds this light of, um, we can use these moments to understand like where consumers are, where people are, kind of, where the trend is going. Um, that you don’t just jump on the trend. It’s [00:29:00] more like what does this actually mean, uh, for what people are experiencing.
So, yes. Thank you, Mari.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yes,
Mario Nichols: of course. More to come.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yes, more to come. Always, always. I mean, this, this has been a thread that we’ve been talking about for, for quite some time. I mean, Des you’ve been really, um, sharing the importance of things like subreddits and sharing the importance of finding the cultural niches and, you know, um, rethinking that mass approach.
So I think it’s just a continuation of a ongoing trend that, um, that we’re really loving to monitor. So with that, we’ll wrap here. Um, thank you for everybody listening. Thank you Des and Mari for joining the show. It was super fun. and as always, we, uh, share our newsletter, the No Normal Rewind, which recaps these discussions and gives some extra insights and stats and details that you won’t find it.
Anywhere else, quick reminder to download our future of the CMO paper, um, which is available via bbds, uh, website, bpd [00:30:00] healthcare.com. You could also shoot us a note at no normal@bbdhealthcare.com if you’d like a one-on-one about it or have any questions or anything like that. Um, and make sure you share the show with friends and colleagues.
Mash that like button. Um, and until next time, don’t be satisfied with the normal. Don’t be satisfied with the typical. Brand media strategies. Find your niche, find your cultural moment, and push that no normal. And we’ll talk to you soon.
Mario Nichols: And in honor of Chris, I’m gonna say hi,
Stephanie Wierwille: yes.
