[00:00:00] Chris: Hello everybody. Welcome to the No Normal Show brought to you by BPD. are a marketing services firm that delivers the future to healthcare’s leading brands. This show, hopefully you know this, if you’re new, you don’t. This is where we leave all the things status quo, traditional old school chat, GPT-4.
And the boring in the dust and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, all focused around the future of healthcare marketing communications. I am Chris Bevelo, chief Transformation Officer, and I am so excited to have with us today, Andy Chang, chief Marketing Officer of U Chicago Medicine. Andy. Hi.
[00:00:40] Andy: hi.
[00:00:41] Chris: Thank you
[00:00:42] Andy: this thing on? Yeah. Okay.
[00:00:46] Chris: Yeah, we’re good.
[00:00:47] Andy: Okay.
[00:00:48] Chris: since we’re gonna talk about technology later, so let’s
[00:00:51] Andy: cool.
[00:00:52] Chris: works
[00:00:53] Andy: We’ll see.
[00:00:53] Chris: for that conversation. Okay, so we are gonna cover a few things. We’re gonna talk about, [00:01:00] uh, maybe the most important thing of all, which is video games.
’cause that’s a passion that,
[00:01:03] Andy: Correct.
[00:01:04] Chris: share. We will hit a couple of headlines on ai, some big news drop in just yesterday, I think
[00:01:10] Andy: Yep.
[00:01:10] Chris: we record this. And then we’re gonna talk technology with Andy Chang. And we’re gonna use this voice. We’ll spend most of the time talking about. Technology in marketing and health system marketing because that is Andy’s sweet spot.
Can I call it your sweet spot?
[00:01:26] Andy: Sure. Yeah, let’s do it. That’s my sweet, sweet spot.
[00:01:29] Chris: spot. All right, so we’ll get to all that in a little bit here. Just a couple of plugs. Uh, remember we have the future of the CMO report, uh, available. In fact, Andy and I did a webinar this week on that very thing with our friend Christine Kotler. Uh, so you can download the report at our website. The link is in the show notes. Uh, and if you are. You are feeling the squeeze in any way as a CMO, definitely reach out to us. We work with a lot of folks, [00:02:00] um, who are facing all kinds of issues right now that are new and fresh and no fun. And so if we can help you out in these rollercoaster times, let us know. And if you can’t get enough of this amazing show, make sure you subscribe to our newsletter. The no normal rewind or recap discussions like the one you’re gonna hear today with Andy, uh, and hit some extra insights. So, all right. All that out of the way. Uh, so much important news
[00:02:25] Andy: Yep.
[00:02:25] Chris: get to. So let’s start with probably the most important. How is dying light to going, Andy?
[00:02:33] Andy: You know, I would say it’s one of your better recommendations for me. Um, maybe not the best
[00:02:42] Chris: Yeah.
[00:02:43] Andy: because I just started it, but I just, uh, started the level of trying to get his biomarker. And you know what really annoys me about that game? It’s [00:03:00] those flashbacks of them as kids, of him and his sister. And I can’t tell if the little boy’s voice is actually the little girl’s voice.
And the little girl’s voice is the little boy’s voice. Like, I mean, who is talking? I don’t know. They both sound the, like the same person to me. Um, otherwise the gore is incredible. I mean you could, it is graphic. There are a lot of intestines in that, in that game and uh,
[00:03:30] Chris: Four
[00:03:30] Andy: it’s,
[00:03:31] Chris: on the
[00:03:31] Andy: yeah.
[00:03:32] Chris: scale
[00:03:33] Andy: Lot of blood and guts.
[00:03:35] Chris: we should probably step back
[00:03:36] Andy: Oh yeah. We should step back. Yeah, step back. We norm no, normal. Rewind that, please.
[00:03:43] Chris: Dying like to stay human. Um, is a video game. So we’ll just start with that. I should have said that at the
[00:03:49] Andy: Yeah.
[00:03:50] Chris: Uh, Andy and I are prolific video gamers. We play a lot together. Um. And this is a, this is a zombie apocalypse game, [00:04:00] uh, that me and another friend spent a lot of time on in the pandemic when this first came out.
I believe, maybe not, maybe it’s not that old. But, um, there’s a new version of this coming out this month, in fact. So we’re
[00:04:12] Andy: Oh,
[00:04:12] Chris: back into it so that we can pick up the new game. So
[00:04:15] Andy: man.
[00:04:16] Chris: there’s a lot. It’s, it’s not a game for kids.
[00:04:18] Andy: No, no.
[00:04:20] Chris: do you
[00:04:20] Andy: Definitely not.
[00:04:20] Chris: you play with your kids, Andy?
[00:04:22] Andy: Uh, yeah, we play a lot of FIFA still. Uh, we just started playing Formula one F1 racing. Um, they are really into, uh, super Mario Kart and also Star de Valley. Um, I think Star de Valley is one of the most boring games ever. Uh uh, they’re in the sneaky Sasquatch. Um, man, we’ve spent a lot of screen time on this house.
[00:04:52] Chris: I, I’ve
[00:04:53] Andy: Oh man.
[00:04:53] Chris: Sasquatch.
[00:04:55] Andy: You have not heard of it.
[00:04:56] Chris: is I have, my kids are all now out of the nest. They’re in [00:05:00] their twenties, but I spent a lot of time with my kids when they were growing up
[00:05:03] Andy: yeah.
[00:05:03] Chris: and the argument that I perfected and I believe it to my core, nobody will convince me otherwise, is it is actually great parent child time.
[00:05:11] Andy: That’s right.
[00:05:11] Chris: you are engaged in something together,
[00:05:14] Andy: right.
[00:05:14] Chris: uh, it is screen time. So you’ve gotta be honest about screen time, but it’s not everybody on their phone in the living room doing something separate.
[00:05:22] Andy: Yeah,
[00:05:22] Chris: not even watching tv, which is a latent activity.
[00:05:25] Andy: that’s right.
[00:05:26] Chris: And many times you’re playing a game where you’re, you’re in a, what’s called a co-op game or you’re working together.
[00:05:32] Andy: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:32] Chris: so as long as you’re not working together, uh, to up your intestine count, it can be a very good.
[00:05:39] Andy: I, that’s why I do it. Honestly, it’s because I’m in Chicago during the weekend. I’m in Atlanta during the weekends and the way that I connect with my kids. Without, you know, normally when I call them, they’re just, it’s a lot of silence. Awkward silence. ’cause they’re just doing their own thing or starting to play with the emojis and the, the face [00:06:00] ar stuff.
And when we play video games, we’re more focused on trying to beat each other up or, uh, we’re trying to solve puzzles together. Maybe that’s the better thing to say publicly, but yeah. Have you ever played overcooked, by the way? Overcooked.
[00:06:17] Chris: Overcooked is
[00:06:17] Andy: That game tells you everything you need to know about a family, how, how well they gel, or how well they don’t gel.
And we stopped playing.
[00:06:27] Chris: Now that’s fair.
[00:06:28] Andy: Yeah.
[00:06:29] Chris: for those who don’t know, is
[00:06:30] Andy: Yeah.
[00:06:30] Chris: you work as a team in a kitchen to make food. And like some people are in charge of
[00:06:36] Andy: Yep.
[00:06:37] Chris: and some people are in charge of this or that. And so as if somebody doesn’t hold up their end of the bargain, you can’t deliver the meal. And so yeah, it can get pretty intense.
You’re all working together, but like little Joey’s. Four. Like, dude, pick up the pace. Like
[00:06:52] Andy: Yep.
[00:06:52] Chris: got the controller upside down. You don’t even know what these symbols mean, but come
[00:06:55] Andy: Yep.
[00:06:57] Chris: Right.
[00:06:57] Andy: of tears. Yeah. But [00:07:00] we stopped playing
[00:07:01] Chris: You’re cutting into my argument that it’s great for family, so
[00:07:04] Andy: and, uh, it, it, yeah. Let’s move on. Let’s move on.
[00:07:07] Chris: let’s move on. So let’s talk about AI real quick in our headline segment. Uh, couple of things we want to hit on. The first is the news yesterday that OpenAI released chat, GPT five.
[00:07:20] Andy: That’s right. The Cinco.
[00:07:22] Chris: what’s that?
[00:07:23] Andy: The Cinco.
[00:07:24] Chris: The Cinco. Uh, someday
[00:07:27] Andy: they call it.
[00:07:28] Chris: which
[00:07:29] Andy: That’s right.
[00:07:29] Chris: another, a whole nother thing. Uh, I have not, it’s been all over BPD
[00:07:35] Andy: I.
[00:07:35] Chris: of kind of POVs and here’s what to know. Uh, I haven’t had a chance to dig into it deep. I don’t know if you have. I. The only thing I’ll say is I see a lot of claims about how this is like PhD level stuff.
So that’s I think from open AI and that’ll come out over time. But I also saw somebody post something they used chat GPT five to tell them how many bees were in blueberry, and the answer was [00:08:00] three. And the response was, well, how you get three? And they were like, there’s one in blue and two in berries. they’re like, PhD level, right? So I
[00:08:09] Andy: Hmm.
[00:08:09] Chris: that’s even true. I, I would assume it probably is. But um, what do you know about it, Andy?
[00:08:14] Andy: Yeah. Uh, I’ve, I’ve spent a few hours on it yesterday. I played around a lot with it. It is noticeably faster. Um, I sent, I asked it to do, uh, different mo different modes, deep research, web search, um, projects. And it is definitely faster. It is, um, the language is slightly different. They, they updated the way that it talks back to you, it is less flowery and it’s a little bit more professional, direct.
And I see that too, which I like. Um, I do like how it finds which model is best for you based on the question that you ask or the prompt that you give it. But it’s definitely not perfect. Uh, I, [00:09:00] I read an article, uh, or a couple articles and they were saying on the creativity side, it’s not that much better at all than four.
Um. It’s still, in some cases four, gives you better images from Dolly or uh, store videos. Um, but I think there was focusing more on the logic engine behind it more than anything. So it, this is supposed to be their biggest release of the year. Um, it’s not as much cool stuff. It’s more like you said, like PhD level, back backend stuff, and.
But it is, you know, compare that to GPT two or three, or one even. Right. It’s, it’s still, it’s still amazing what they’ve been able to produce in such a short time. So, I’m a fan. I’m a fan.
[00:09:51] Chris: So I’m gonna ask you this question and I’ll give you three choices of how to answer. How much time do you think you spend an [00:10:00] average day in AI and, and your choices are? Some kind of quantification of hours,
[00:10:05] Andy: I. Yeah.
[00:10:07] Chris: this is where I, I’m going to this as where you’re proactively using ai.
Of course, AI is built into some of the things that we use every day, like our iPhone, right? So I’m not going to, don’t include like things that are just in something where you’re actively using, let’s say,
[00:10:22] Andy: Yeah.
[00:10:23] Chris: as a tool or something else. So it’s either quantitative by day or hour, or can’t, you don’t count that ’cause it’s pretty much. Embedded in everything you do or most of what you do,
[00:10:36] Andy: Yeah, I’ll say I stopped using Google. I now only use perplexity. Uh, sometimes I do use, uh, I have to use Google, like if I’m doing a Google Images search, uh, but my default is now Plexity. Um, I am. Constantly asking it [00:11:00] to revise emails. I am asking for feedback on some of the stories I’m trying to tell from a presentation standpoint.
Um, also ideas around, you know, personal stuff like, uh, what are some good restaurants that are popping up in. Chicago that I should hear about lately. Um, I’m, I’m, I’m just, and it does the search for me. I’m using AgTech on a pretty regular basis. And you know what people aren’t talking enough about, by the way, uh, not to kind of switch gears a little bit, is MCP, um, which is the connectors, the open, um, model, I mean, excuse me, the open, uh, language connectors that, uh.
Are being built. And so I’m using those as well. So let me, I can’t quantify it for you, but let’s just say a lot. A lot. Yeah. So, so when you said three [00:12:00] choices, I was thinking, I thought you were gonna, who do you want to marry? Who do you wanna kill?
[00:12:03] Chris: Nope.
[00:12:04] Andy: No. From an AI standpoint, no, I, you cutting that?
[00:12:08] Chris: Stop, stop with the two. I only gave you two choices. I said three, but I only gave you
[00:12:12] Andy: Uh, that’s right.
[00:12:13] Chris: stop with, um, Mary and Kill. We’ll
[00:12:16] Andy: Yeah.
[00:12:16] Chris: right there. Uh, but let’s do quickly switch to, uh, age agentic,
[00:12:21] Andy: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:21] Chris: know that’s a big thing. You’ve talked about it personally. Uh, it, it’s interesting to me ’cause I’m just gonna let you go on this. Uh, when I, when I was kept hearing about it, I’m like, all right, I better go back and remember what, what is meant here. So I wonder what your definition of it is, but when I read it, I’m like, isn’t this redundant? This is like a jumbo or not jumbo shrimp.
I guess that’s oxymoronic. Um, it, it feels redundant to say AG agentic ai. In my mind, what we mean by ag agentic is actually. What AI’s supposed to be, but what’s your, what’s your definition of it and why is it a big deal to you?[00:13:00]
[00:13:00] Andy: Yeah, my definition of AgTech is, uh, being able to handle tasks. Automatically that even with a generative AI would’ve required you to do some manual clicking or typing, what have you. But now those are being like your mouse and your keyboard is now being taken control. Um, it is, to me, the, yeah, you’re right.
It is what AI was closer to. What it was supposed to be intended for originally. And, and of course there’s a GI, which is the ultimate thing, but to me, AgTech is, um, more exciting than generative. Generative is fun. Uh, and sure you can save a lot of time, um, on, on generative the for work, but ag agentic, [00:14:00] you save days and you save real dollars with agentic.
That’s. Where the true ROI of AI comes in from my standpoint. So it is very, uh, exciting on that, in that area. And I’ve been using AgTech, like I just said. Uh, I’ve been using a lot of, well, when, when chat GPT first released operator, their agentic, it was not good. Um, but it’s getting better by the month. Um, but then perplexity announced, uh, released their browser comet, and that is now the browser I primarily use for default, and it has AgTech built into it.
So here’s an example of how I used it last week. Everyone that works for a company has to go through compliance training or mandatory training courses that you have to then take a test [00:15:00] for, watch all the videos, and they don’t want you to just quick through it all. You have to spend at least two hours on it.
Well, I told the ag agent ai, take this training for me, and it did it.
[00:15:12] Chris: Do you want to, we may need to cut that out of this podcast. I don’t know like
[00:15:17] Andy: I know
[00:15:17] Chris: would feel about that.
[00:15:18] Andy: they would not be happy, but I’m going to show them I’m, it’s part of a presentation I’m giving to our executive leadership team of what a agentic can do.
[00:15:27] Chris: Did you
[00:15:27] Andy: I am, it, it, I didn’t pass, well, I did pass, but the AI took the test for me and got an 80%, which was the minimum, minimum required to, to pass. And, um, I recorded it.
Um, and now imagine there’s like, you know, 10 of these or 15 of these that you gotta do, 15 agents running at the same time, just going through all of your compliance training. Uh, they’re gonna have to figure out how to, you know, prevent this from happening. But that’s just one use case. Another one is, um, [00:16:00] I want to do a search on our website, uh, at should pogo medicine.org of how many physicians are listed on a website that fit these criteria.
And instead of manually doing it, I just told the agent, go find it and put it into an Excel spreadsheet for me. Thank you. And it did it within, you know, 15 minutes or so. Um, now imagine that for work, uh, times a hundred, because you don’t have to have one agent. You can have as many agents as you want. It is literally the agents from the Matrix, just you, you just clone it and have it do different things.
It’s pretty, it’s pretty amazing. So
[00:16:42] Chris: you
[00:16:42] Andy: I’m in, I’m excited.
[00:16:43] Chris: Yeah. And don’t you imagine too, that there will be companies. That develop, I mean, don’t imagine like the people have been talking about this, but you’ve got companies, um, let’s say it’s Delta Airlines, that creates an agent to work with your agent.
[00:16:58] Andy: Yeah.
[00:16:58] Chris: in other words, like, hey, if you’re building [00:17:00] an agent to help you, you know, um, plan your travel and book your travel, connect them into, you know, delta’s, Sam the robot, and they will figure it out together. You know, so that’s just gonna encourage more consumers. Or business folks or whoever to figure out how to do this on their own, or maybe it’ll be done for them. Like, Hey, you don’t even need to come up with your own, use our robot
[00:17:26] Andy: That’s right.
[00:17:27] Chris: for you. So
[00:17:29] Andy: That’s right.
[00:17:29] Chris: amazing.
[00:17:31] Andy: It is the beginning of the end of websites as we know it.
[00:17:38] Chris: Oh,
[00:17:39] Andy: that.
[00:17:39] Chris: about the internet? I keep hearing people say that the Internet’s dead and email’s dead.
[00:17:45] Andy: Uh,
[00:17:45] Chris: of ai. We’re all, by the way, we’re already into Talking Tech with Andy Chang, so let’s just keep going.
[00:17:53] Andy: is there like a, like a,
[00:17:54] Chris: I didn’t get to formally introduce it, but
[00:17:55] Andy: um,
[00:17:56] Chris: ’cause this
[00:17:56] Andy: like a foghorn or a Bullhorn noise that comes in at that? [00:18:00] Um, the, yeah. Like, all right, here we go. Uh.
[00:18:04] Chris: So
[00:18:05] Andy: It is. It is.
[00:18:06] Chris: You said that this is the end of websites as we know it. So
[00:18:09] Andy: Yep.
[00:18:10] Chris: before we get to, is the internet dead? Is email dead? What do you mean by this is the end of websites as we know
[00:18:15] Andy: If I have my own agent, why do I ever need to go to delta.com? I just tell the agent, Hey, book this flight for me, and I like the window seats. Uh, I never need to visit delta.com, and as a matter of fact, it would be easier. This is where MCP comes in, those connectors. It’d be easier if the agent can talk to Delta’s agent as instead of just going to the website, and if I don’t need to go to delta.com.
But. Also, uh, get the, get the flights that I wanted booked automatically. I’m not going to delta.com. I’m, I’m not going to use chicago medicine.org. I’m just gonna have my agents [00:19:00] do the work to book that appointment to get my prescription refilled, whatever it is. Um, so the websites that we’re using as it is today, I think are gonna have to change drastically and to the point where.
Websites are going to be more just for content curiosity, but not for, um, conversion activity or calls to action that’s gonna be handled by your agent. Um, so it you, the way that you design and think about websites has to change. Today, agen AI is here already and it’s only going to develop and become more mainstream.
In a matter of, you know, a couple years Gen ai, right. Chat GPT when everyone heard about it. Was that two years ago,
[00:19:50] Chris: Yeah,
[00:19:50] Andy: right?
[00:19:51] Chris: now.
[00:19:52] Andy: Three almost. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Like, look how quickly that changed the way We just accept that as normal now. And, and [00:20:00] so three years from now, um, you know, the agents, the agent take AI is gonna be way more advanced and, and it’s just gonna change the way that we do things as we know it.
That’s, that’s what I mean.
[00:20:12] Chris: So a couple, couple questions or points still would need something for the agent to search and find the what it needs,
[00:20:21] Andy: It doesn’t need a front end.
[00:20:23] Chris: what’s
[00:20:23] Andy: Yeah, it doesn’t need a front end,
[00:20:25] Chris: right. How it does that, is it gonna look and feel completely different?
[00:20:29] Andy: but.
[00:20:30] Chris: I, I think I’ve also keep hearing more about, you know, we’ve been hearing like SE o’s dead, blah, blah, blah, but I do hear a lot of conversation about how all the ways in which we’ve learned to leverage content are either dead because of this, or we’ll have to change dramatically.
So the idea, for example, of putting out a blog. Post, uh, in fact, I was just talking to a health system marketer who shared like, Hey, we used to get the [00:21:00] most traffic to our website from. Our blog because it would go out, there we go on the socials. It would, it’d be what is pulling people in, right? And it’s also, usually your blog is, will cover more than just like, we have a great, orthopedic surgeon, it’ll cover how do you keep your knees safe when you jog that kind of stuff.
So more people see it, blah, blah, blah. he was sharing like that’s just completely fallen off. The, the traffic to their blog has completely fallen off and therefore it’s impacting their web traffic. Uh. Because people, the, the whole idea of a long tail kind of away. So I think that’s another aspect, right? Yeah. Okay. So what about the internet? So the way I hear that the Internet’s gonna die is that, uh, AI will make it so easy and so cheap to flood the zone with content that it’ll become useless because nobody will know what’s real, what’s not. And [00:22:00] people will just. You know, to your point, like, I’m not even gonna go to the my browser for all this if my agent can just go.
[00:22:07] Andy: That’s right.
[00:22:08] Chris: true, and if the whole model of the web is based on eyeballs funding, in many cases funding the content and the eyeballs go away, what
[00:22:21] Andy: What happens? I, I, that’s, that is, uh, yeah, that is something that is, I’m, I don’t have, uh. Super strong, um, hunches on this one, but the content world itself, that, I mean, that is how the content is what feeds ai and it’s gonna have to exist somewhere and people will always create content, whether it’s video or, or, um, or blogs, what have you.
And there’ll all be, always be s. People want to share. It’ll always be news. Um, [00:23:00] content is gonna have to exist somewhere, but getting flooded with it, I don’t know if it’s gonna really make, this is where I struggle. I don’t know if it’s gonna really make a meaningful difference in the way that I personally search for content or how people search for content.
[00:23:16] Chris: Sure.
[00:23:17] Andy: because people tend to have. Their habits or their go-tos and where they get their content, um, whether it is Google or AI or New York Times, or the news aggregators or you know, uh, Reddit, um, what have you, it is gonna explode, but I don’t think it’s going to necessarily tick people out, off, off of. The internet completely.
Um, content is a way not just to get information, but also to get connection and the um, I think what’s gonna be probably. Just as, um, [00:24:00] popular as, uh, having bots that check the validity of the content and to make sure that those, uh, news sites or whatever aggregators are out there, um, can check the accuracy of things so that people know that it’s accurate.
And then, uh, the other thing, which, which is what CloudFlare did, which is trying to. Prevent AI from, you know, scraping their sites and maybe start to charge AI to get their content. Uh, it is a wild west right now, and I don’t think, um, it’s gonna really change the, the content reading, consuming behavior as much.
There’s gonna be something that no one’s ever thought of, like the next TikTok or what have you, that will maybe change things up, but. Um, but people really need, at a basic fundamental level, um, Maslow’s hierarchy need, they just, they just need to have that connection.
[00:24:57] Chris: Okay. So, uh, website’s gonna change. [00:25:00] Thumbs up, Internet’s gonna die. Thumbs down, or probably not. Last one. Email, uh, and the, the, the email, the death of email is coming from the idea that most people’s email, the vast majority of it is crap.
[00:25:16] Andy: Yep.
[00:25:16] Chris: it’s spam, it’s sales, it’s whatever. Um, you have to weed through all of your emails, especially if you work in the corporate environment, um, to get to the stuff that matters. And AI combined with other technology advances in marketing. Again, it’s gonna make it so easy and so cheap to send out
[00:25:36] Andy: Yep.
[00:25:38] Chris: you know, and people are just gonna be like, there’s no point in me even using this anymore because
[00:25:43] Andy: Yeah.
[00:25:43] Chris: of 90% of my inbox is full of shit, excuse my language. 99.9% of it is.
[00:25:50] Andy: Yep.
[00:25:50] Chris: just, I’m not, if you wanna get ahold of me, don’t use email. ’cause I can’t even find you.
[00:25:54] Andy: Yep.
[00:25:54] Chris: I don’t know if that, that sounds maybe more feasible than the internet thing, but I don’t know.
[00:25:59] Andy: [00:26:00] I think that is way more feasible. Um, so going back to the connectors like anthropic, uh, and Claude. Also actually open ai. They have a way for you to connect directly into Gmail, um, and your mail apps where it will read your email if you give it permission to, and it will tell you what to read. And then it’ll tell you how to respond and if you change the setting.
And this also works with Claude’s, uh, apple messages, by the way. Um, it’ll read your text messages and your notes. You can set it so that it will automatically respond to those messages and texts and emails if you wanted to. So email is. Gonna just become another, uh, way of, uh, an outdated mode of transportation, so to speak.
And we’ll just use that infrastructure to build, uh, more modern stuff [00:27:00] on top of it. Um, but there’s gonna be a day when you get an email and maybe, man, like let’s say 1% of the emails you get in a given day was actually written by a person, even though.
[00:27:13] Chris: Right.
[00:27:13] Andy: 10% of it was actually related to your work. Um, so it is, it is gonna be really interesting how that changes and how we communicate.
Um, it, it is very, uh, wide open, greenfield, white space, whatever the cool right term is now, but. I’m, but I’m playing around a lot with, with Claude’s MCP ’cause they, that they were the first one to have something, a connector with Apple. And, um, it’s not working great, but I know it will soon. And, and what I, when I, what I actually, the prompt that I gave it was, Hey, read all my messages from so and so and pretend that you are a, uh, psychologist.
Um, how [00:28:00] would you evaluate. Uh, the conversation and, um, my, my personality type and the other person’s per i’ll, I’ll just be honest. It’s my, my family. And how would you, uh, analyze our behavior? Um, yeah, so you can just do that automatically.
[00:28:23] Chris: So it reminds me of a, a book, um, that a business coach
[00:28:27] Andy: I.
[00:28:27] Chris: recommended to whom he called, um, God I get the name wrong, I think it’s Diamond, diamond Butterfly, but it’s, it’s one of those like DISC or uh, Myers-Briggs where it’s focused on business and it, and it, you, you, you can audit or assess yourself or others. Easily from the outside and put ’em into one of four camps. And the premise of the book is, not just about like the golden rule where you treat people how you wanna be treated. It’s not just about, the platinum rule is treat people how they wanna be treated. It’s how does your preferences and style [00:29:00] mesh with somebody else’s preferences and style because
[00:29:02] Andy: Oh yeah,
[00:29:04] Chris: is different than some other. And then what do you do? So if you’re an A and you’re talking to a C, that’s a different. Conversation. If you want to get what you want out of it,
[00:29:16] Andy: yeah.
[00:29:16] Chris: it would be talking to a B.
[00:29:18] Andy: Yeah.
[00:29:18] Chris: that. Author creates a chat GPT agent to say like, Hey, tell me five things about this person and read the emails from this person and I will tell you what category they’re in and based on what I know about you,
[00:29:31] Andy: Yep,
[00:29:32] Chris: how you should shape your comms with them,
[00:29:34] Andy: that’s right.
[00:29:35] Chris: and digital so that you have a better working relationship and you’re able to achieve what you wanna achieve in that engagement like that. That’s why that isn’t happening right now. I don’t know,
[00:29:45] Andy: It,
[00:29:46] Chris: Whoever the, I know who the author is, I’ll send ’em the idea.
[00:29:48] Andy: yeah. I, I, I have, um, I know. What you’re, I have, I have read, um, and taken the test of what you’re talking about. I can’t remember it either, but [00:30:00] Absolutely. Yes. And there was a company that did that for your, for LinkedIn. Um, it would look at your LinkedIn and tell you your personality type and how they prefer to be sold to, and, uh, all that stuff, uh, based on just your LinkedIn posts and,
[00:30:14] Chris: Yeah.
[00:30:15] Andy: and, uh, so co
[00:30:17] Chris: Is that it? I mean,
[00:30:19] Andy: uh, maybe.
[00:30:20] Chris: Crystal Knows sometimes ’cause it, it can tell from your internet footprint,
[00:30:25] Andy: Yeah.
[00:30:26] Chris: just like you said, and it’s pretty accurate when you
[00:30:30] Andy: Yeah,
[00:30:30] Chris: to like yourself or people
[00:30:31] Andy: that’s right. I did it to myself. Yeah.
[00:30:33] Chris: yeah, yeah.
[00:30:34] Andy: it is pretty accurate.
[00:30:36] Chris: Let’s keep talking technology.
Let’s shift gears. We’ve got, we’ve got a few minutes left. Uh, how are you using, it can be ai, but we’ve talked a lot about ai. How are you using technology right now to advance what you’re doing in your role, Andy, in terms of like marketing? So that could be a thousand different things, but what’s the biggest, most important thing in your mind that you’re trying to accomplish right now with [00:31:00] latest, greatest MarTech stack?
[00:31:03] Andy: Yep. Okay. Let’s talk stack part. Whoa, that, that came out wrong. Let’s talk MarTech Stack and,
[00:31:12] Chris: tech stack. How’s that?
[00:31:15] Andy: The idea that marketing is pretty pictures and, and commercials and ads to me is very old school, as you know, and as you agree with marketing is more about creating that perception in someone’s mind.
Um. In a positive way using every touchpoint. And those touchpoint aren’t just emails and ads, it is also when you walk into the front door of our building or even the parking deck, it is when you are even looking for the garbage can or trying to, um, book an appointment, whatever the touchpoint is, how do we make that experience as [00:32:00] seamless and frictionless as possible?
With generative AI and ent, those touchpoint can be so hyper-personalized now and to the point where it shouldn’t matter what Chris Bevelo wants when he is interacting with UChicago medicine. Uh, we shouldn’t care. However you want to act with us or interact with us is how we should accommodate. And so our tech stack is being built in such a way that all of those touchpoints in person, online, offline, on the phone, everything is being put into one place in, uh, CDP.
And then we use that CDP to, um, to activate Agen ai. And you are able to [00:33:00] interact with us, whether it’s a phone call or SMS or WhatsApp or email, um, web chat, whatever you wanna do, um, whatever question you have, whatever channel you prefer, that is, that is what we should allow. So the analogy is. Using, um, burger King or McDonald’s app to get your meal, your burger, that’s, you know, 900 calories.
However you want it. Do you want it delivered? Do you want it to be picked up, uh, at the drive-through window? Do you want it to be delivered to your car in the parking lot? Do you wanna change your mind halfway through and change it? Great. They don’t care. What, what, what they care about is the fact that they’re making it such an easy experience that the next time you’re thinking about fast food, um, which I am now.
Good Lord, I’m, I know what I’m having for lunch. [00:34:00] Yeah. Um. They’re making such an easy experience that you’ll come back again and again and you’ll tell your friends about it and that’s how they will get revenue. And then that’s how we’re thinking about our tech stack and our experiences. Um, within healthcare, we shouldn’t care how you choose to interact.
My mom, my dad, my sister, myself, my kids, We all want to interact with healthcare in different ways, except we force you to only interact with us one way. Um,
[00:34:27] Chris: I.
[00:34:27] Andy: that day and age is, I’m trying to make it come to an end. And so we’re, we’re, we are trying to be very aggressive with that vision and, and have a, uh, a steering committee built a.
Journey Map built. We have our tech stack being built right now. Um, we have partnered with Salesforce, uh, to build it out with their agent force, and we are their first, um, to be in using their voice AI pilot in the, in the industry. So there’s a lot of excitement about this [00:35:00] internally and hopefully once we launch it externally as well.
Um, and that’s, to me what that is, what marketing is all about, is how do we really get people to. Have such a great experience in any touchpoint that they want to come back and tell their friends and, and, um, just, we’ll just be the top of mind destination for any of their health healthcare needs. But overall, it is just the right thing to do.
For crying out loud, it’s 2025.
[00:35:28] Chris: Yeah.
[00:35:29] Andy: I can play video games about zombies and see all the intestines spill out, and yet I still have to call a one 800 number to book a, an appointment that’s gonna be six months out. So it’s just very
[00:35:42] Chris: trying to
[00:35:42] Andy: weird.
[00:35:43] Chris: was there. So like if your intestines are falling out in real life,
[00:35:46] Andy: Yeah,
[00:35:47] Chris: have the options. Yeah, that’s the best I could do with your
[00:35:50] Andy: yeah. Don’t, don’t make them, don’t make them call us. Right.
[00:35:55] Chris: Well, that sounds like a massive undertaking,
[00:35:58] Andy: It is, it’s, [00:36:00] it is, yeah.
[00:36:00] Chris: committee ’cause you’re, this has to be operationalized. It can’t be
[00:36:04] Andy: That’s right.
[00:36:05] Chris: you know, it doesn’t fit on a billboard, that’s for sure.
[00:36:08] Andy: No, it doesn’t.
[00:36:09] Chris: about that. Yeah.
[00:36:11] Andy: is a multidisciplinary committee that has compliance and IT and operations and our access center and our marketing, and it is, it, it’s the entire patient journey that we’re trying to. Improve not just one part of it, the entire thing. So it’s gotta be multidisciplinary and cross-functional and, and everyone is a hundred percent on board.
It is really exciting and honestly, it’s why I joined U Chicago Medicine. One of the biggest reasons why I joined U Chicago Medicine in the first place. They, they wanted to do that and I’m like, sign me up.
[00:36:48] Chris: Yeah. No, that’s fantastic. All right, so we’re almost at the end. Um, any final thoughts on tech, ai, intestines?[00:37:00]
[00:37:00] Andy: Yeah, let’s let, um, well, what are you gonna have for lunch today? Now that we’re just, it’s lunchtime right now.
[00:37:08] Chris: Yeah.
[00:37:09] Andy: We talked about intestines and burgers, maybe. Uh hmm. Maybe I’ll mix the two together. Yeah.
[00:37:17] Chris: nice,
[00:37:19] Andy: Nah. Or maybe, well, why don’t we, why don’t we just do an Uber eat and then we’ll just play video games after this podcast is done.
[00:37:26] Chris: Fair enough, fair enough. We can do that. Um, the unfortunate thing is we’ll end on this note. What’s sad is the game that. Andy’s getting into, which is an amazing game. We can’t play it together because we’re on different systems. Again,
[00:37:41] Andy: Cross platform.
[00:37:42] Chris: We, that’s the
[00:37:43] Andy: This is,
[00:37:44] Chris: Like
[00:37:45] Andy: is, that is.
[00:37:45] Chris: we not, we can play other games together.
[00:37:48] Andy: I know
[00:37:49] Chris: one that comes out in August will be cross-platform and then
[00:37:52] Andy: it. I, I sure hope so.
[00:37:54] Chris: spills together. Alright, so
[00:37:57] Andy: Wow. This podcast is gonna be,
[00:37:59] Chris: [00:38:00] us.
[00:38:00] Andy: this podcast will never see the light of day, which is fine.
[00:38:03] Chris: it will. Yes it
[00:38:05] Andy: Oh man. Yeah, that’s, you brought the right guest on for sure.
[00:38:11] Chris: Yeah, for sure. Thanks for joining, man.
[00:38:13] Andy: Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It’s always fun to, uh, chat with you and, and shoot the, shoot the stuff and zombies.
[00:38:21] Chris: Absolutely. So for everybody listening, don’t forget that we want to hear from you. shoot us an email at no normal@ppdhealthcare.com. That can be about marketing, that can be about healthcare, that can be about video game recommendations. We’ll take it all. Uh, and
[00:38:35] Andy: Yep. I.
[00:38:36] Chris: your question in the next episode.
Yeah,
[00:38:38] Andy: If you want to join, if you want to join our video game crew, we got a really good healthcare crew going. Reach out to, uh, Chris Bevelo please.
[00:38:47] Chris: yes, we do have a good crew going. Um,
[00:38:50] Andy: it is fun.
[00:38:51] Chris: person in there. Um,
[00:38:53] Andy: Oh, that’s right.
[00:38:53] Chris: used to be, he used to be a CFO at a health insurer, so
[00:38:59] Andy: So [00:39:00] we, we always leave him out to drive first.
[00:39:03] Chris: We do, we do.
[00:39:04] Andy: We, we don’t rescue him.
[00:39:07] Chris: with them on the prior authorization before we kill somebody in the game. Uh, make sure you share the show with friends and colleagues and give us a review and rating on iTunes and Spotify.
That is all appreciated. Until next time, don’t be satisfied with the normal the no normal. for joining everybody. We’ll talk to you next week. Bye.
[00:39:30] Andy: That’s a smart list, buy.
