Full episode transcript.
*Please note that this podcast transcript has been autogenerated and may contain errors or inaccuracies. We recommend referring to the original audio for the most precise representation of the content.
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Stephanie Wierwille: [00:00:00] Welcome to the No Normal Show, brought to you by BPDA marketing services firm that delivers the future to healthcare’s leading brands. This show is where we leave all things status quo, traditional old school, and boring in the dust, and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, all few focused on the future of healthcare, marketing, and communications.
I’m Stephanie Bel, EVP of Engagement here at BPD, and I’m joined by Desiree Duncan, VP of Health Equity and Inclusion. Hello, Des.
Desiree Duncan: Hi, Stephanie. How’s your world?
Stephanie Wierwille: You know, it’s wild and chaotic and we love it that way. Right?
Desiree Duncan: Keeps us on our toes.
Stephanie Wierwille: This is true. This is true. Um, yeah, I feel like we’re headed into, uh, uh, an exciting summer. Um, so I’m ready for it. Let’s go.
Desiree Duncan: Let’s go.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, so we have a jam packed agenda today, and we’re gonna be covering a few different topics. Um, first of all, uh, we are gonna hit some interesting trends that we’ve been seeing in the world and [00:01:00] land of YouTube that we think is just really impact impacting marketing strategies overall, especially when it comes to video.
Second, we’ve got some hot off the press job titles that are replacing the chief marketing officer aligned with all the. Thought leadership we’ve been doing around the future of the CMO and Rome is burning. So it’s not just healthcare that’s seeing a change here in the CMO world. So we’ll cover that.
And then our main topic today, we’re calling the end of brand buzz, which sounds doom and gloom, but actually it’s really exciting. So we are just seeing a really big shift in how brands are thinking about, who’s talking about them, where people are talking about brands, and um, the goal of buzz and virality.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah,
Stephanie Wierwille: So.
Desiree Duncan: We need actually what’s going on in the world.
Stephanie Wierwille: That’s right down with Buzz. Who needs that?
Desiree Duncan: with buzz.
Stephanie Wierwille: Um, so before we get into all that, I just have a few quick, uh, headlines coming at you from BPD [00:02:00] Land. First of all, for all those who have attended Joe Public Retreat in the past or heard of Joe Public Retreat or maybe would like to attend in the future. We have an exciting announcement coming about the next Joe Public Retreat.
So just a quick little background for those who are not familiar. Joe Public Retreat is, um, a really intimate closed door session that we hold with, uh, chief marketing officers, marketing communications leaders at hospitals, health systems and healthcare organizations where we can really just hunker down for a few days, usually in a really lovely, beautiful location.
And talk about the biggest challenges that are facing healthcare marketers today and. Exciting news. The next Joe Public retreat is coming soon to you in 2026. Somewhere warm and sunny. That’s all I’m gonna say for now. So stay tuned for our full announcement.
Desiree Duncan: Has it been like super wintry each year or something?
Stephanie Wierwille: Hmm. I think we’ve always gone somewhere fairly warm and sunny.
Desiree Duncan: Okay, [00:03:00] well we love that.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, we love that. Maybe one day we’ll hit a ski lodge. Um, sec. Yeah. Right. So, um, the, the next quick note here is I think. Folks have heard about our future of the CMO report. Um, but it is out and live. And if you haven’t downloaded it or viewed it, you can find it available in our show notes. Um, so navigate to the show notes on whatever platform you’re listening to, and you can find that link and get your hands on the future of the CMO report, which digs into, um, the five trends around what CMOs are facing and, and how to solve those, um, trends and challenges.
And then lastly, for, uh, those who can’t get enough of the no normal show, you can subscribe to our newsletter, the No Normal Rewind, which we recap the discussions you hear here today, and some extra insights you won’t find anywhere else. So with that, um. Let’s get into it. Des I’m gonna, I’m gonna [00:04:00] turn the mic over to you first because I think, uh, on this show we usually talk a lot about pop culture and what we’re watching and what we’re seeing out there often in terms of TV or video, but we haven’t really talked a lot about where we’re watching, and I think that’s changing.
And you called out a really interesting change that you’ve seen that’s very applicable to marketing strategies.
Desiree Duncan: Yes, yes, yes. And speaking of what you said earlier about, you know, whatever platform you’re listening to, uh, I’ve been seeing some headlines around how, you know, YouTube is being one of the number one spots for, uh, podcast booming. Um, and so it actually kind of prompted me, ’cause I’ve, I. Also, I’ve just kind of gotten sick of all the weird placements of ads on YouTube videos.
It’s like, you’re right in the good of it, and then it’s like completely like knocks you out with some like random ad. Uh, so I upgraded my life and got YouTube premium and it’s been a game changer. Uh, I forgot like, oh, right. [00:05:00] There is a world where you can actually watch and finish a video without it being like.
Totally interrupted by something. so yeah, it’s been this place that I’ve just been really been digging into on long form stuff I used to be, or I guess I still am like a podcast junkie. Uh, but now I love just discovering just the random things that people have to say. Uh, ’cause YouTube is a perfect place for that. Um, but a among all of that, YouTube has just really been stepping its game up. Um, I feel like it’s one of the, and I guess you can call it a social platform. Um, but it’s one of the platforms where you’re seeing it really staying, uh, on top of and in some ways ahead of the game of kind of what’s trending. Um, but one of the headlines we saw was that YouTube is quietly building its post TikTok strategy because LOL still going away. It’s. Some point, even though it was like saved last mon uh, minute a couple months ago. Um, but that short, uh, is at the center of that. And I, again, I’m in more of the long form of [00:06:00] YouTube, so the shorts have been a little bit, when I’m d when I’m doing my searching, like a lot of shorts will pop up and it’s like, ah, this isn’t exactly what I’m looking for. But I love the fact that they are really staying on top of the game. What’s been your love for YouTube here lately? Stephanie?
Stephanie Wierwille: You know, I’ve noticed the same kind of trend that you have. Um, I did also subscribe for UT Premium a couple months ago. I also upgraded my life, as you said, so kind of interesting that we’re on the same journey there, and I. You just said like, I guess YouTube’s a social platform. I, I’ve always never known what top, what bucket to put it in.
Is it a social platform? Is it a video recommendation engine? Is it a digital marketing tool? I think now I am very squarely putting YouTube in the video TV category. I think they are completely and have completely disrupted the tv. Space from a paid media standpoint, in my opinion. Um, of course, you know, TV is now connected TV and [00:07:00] streaming and OTT and all the things, but YouTube has done a is doing soon, coming soon to a YouTube platform near you, a redesign where their app will look and feel a lot more like a streaming network.
And they’ve said it’s gonna look a lot more like Netflix. Um, in fact, the number one place that users currently watch YouTube is actually on their TVs. Um, that’s, that seems like relatively new news to me and I’ve been doing that myself now with my own, um, Samsung tv. Um, and, and I love, you know, to your point, like they’ve incorporated shorts, they’ve incorporated shows, they’re now changing their ad strategy where ads run at the emotional peak.
So it’s almost like, like a TV show, right? When that big cliffhanger moment happens, they’re using AI to find that moment and running the ads right after that moment happens to make it feel like a sitcom cliffhanger. And so they’re really going up against the Netflix of the world, the Hulus and yes, the traditional TV networks.
So I think I’m changing where I’m [00:08:00] putting YouTube in my marketing, uh, bucket moving forward.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. And that essentially given all of the changes and updates and, you know, trend setting that they’re making, it’s almost like, you know, if you are as a marketer, you need to be on YouTube. If you’re not, um, it’s a, a game changer ’cause, but hearing that it’s becoming kind of like the new Netflix makes me really excited. Uh, ’cause I don’t know if, if you are. Listeners are a fan of Issa Rae and her show, uh, her show Insecure, but originally got its start like over a decade ago with her awkward Black Girl series on YouTube, which back in the day, YouTube series weren’t taken as seriously, but they were the launching pad for a lot of career.
So I’m very excited to, to see that
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: on YouTube.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. Get on YouTube and one double click into that before we move to our next topic, which is I think many, many healthcare organizations think of YouTube as like a repository of videos and we’ll just put whatever we put on TV on YouTube too, and patient [00:09:00] stories on YouTube, and it’s like. There’s so much more, right?
Like there’s so much more. To your point, think of it as a TV channel. Think of it as an evergreen, searchable place. Think of it as a, the new TikTok, like YouTube can do a lot more than just be a video repository. Okay,
Desiree Duncan: is the largest search engine.
Stephanie Wierwille: there you go. Drop in the stats. Yes, it’s um. So our next headline here, uh, is very much in line with that future of the CMO report that we plugged up front.
So at BBD, we’ve been talking about the how the CMO role is changing and evolving, and was it yesterday, des I think just yesterday a new, um, piece hit on Adweek about how job titles are changing for CMOs beyond healthcare. So I’ll just give a quick overview and would love your take on this. Does, um, what this article from Adweek points out is that there’s a decline in, they call it CMO appointments, but basically [00:10:00] the number of CMO roles over the past few years have declined.
It doesn’t mean that the job is necessarily going away, but the title, the, the. The structure, the way it’s being thought about is changing. Um, and instead, what’s popping up is more chief Revenue Officer roles, more chief sales officer roles. Um, and perhaps, you know, some of those marketing skill sets are being either folded into or evolved into these other kinds of roles.
Some of the other titles are things like, you know, chief Experience Officer, chief Growth Officer. We. We’ve talked about that before on the show, and in fact, in our Joe Public retreat, we had a whole session about, you know, what is the right rebrand, if you will, for A CML. Um, but Des, as you saw this piece hit, I’m curious, what was your take on things like chief sales, chief revenue, chief growth, as opposed to marketing?
Desiree Duncan: I guess for me it, it really started to hit home of like, these are titles that actually speak to what the role is that they are [00:11:00] doing, or what the organization really wants the role to, to be and do. Um, and it makes me think like, wow, is marketing or the terminology of marketing, is it becoming more of a, these are the tactics, these are the things that you do. But the role should reflect more of, you know, what we’re actually trying to accomplish, which is growth. Growth in revenue, growth in sales. So, I don’t know, maybe the underlining, uh, term is growth.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, I, that’s a great, I, I think you said it really, really well. Right? Which is like. The purpose of marketing is not to market. The purpose of marketing is to grow the business. And so w words like marketing to a chief finance officer or a chief executive officer often sound like, oh, you’re placing those cute little ads.
You know, oh, go put this on our YouTube channel, as opposed to, no, no, no. How are you growing the business? Show me the proof. [00:12:00] Show me the financial metrics. Don’t talk to me about impressions and views. Talk to me about, you know, new patients acquired. Um,
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. And I guess I
Stephanie Wierwille: I.
Desiree Duncan: about it in the, because there’s so many different people out there that are saying that they’re marketers. Um, like I think about all of the podcasts when I’m, when I’m trying to really di dive into a topic, I usually do my search on the Spotify to see, okay, who, just to hear the conversation while I’m doing my, like morning workout, right? But so many folks are giving themselves that marketing moniker. Then it becomes like, well, what? Does this even mean anymore? Uh, so I love the idea of specificity, uh, and that words means things and that it’s kind of shifting. But again, like it’s also gonna be an identity thing of like, who are we now if we aren’t a chief marketing officer? Not I, I’ve never been a chief marketing officer, but Yeah. But like, what’s the identity now? We’ll
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: more on a future episode.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll save that because I think this [00:13:00] the, throughout this whole year, we’ll be talking about the future of the CMO. And in our paper we did point out the importance of showing financial impact. And to your point, as it’s not just a title change, that would, that would be silly. It should be a complete rethink of how the function operates, how we work with other departments, um, the kind of culture we bring, all of that.
Um. Okay, so let’s get into our main topic here, which I’m really excited about. Um, we’re calling it the end of Brand Buzz. I’m gonna go in the way back machine and then we’ll get into a convo here about it. But this kind of came up because this. Thankfully we have moved past the era of, Hey, I want a viral moment.
I wanna create brand buzz. I wanna create a groundswell of conversation, and oh, I’m gonna use a hashtag to do it. Right? It’s like folks have, we’ve lived through that era and we are hopefully now all far more sophisticated than that to the point about [00:14:00] growth, um, and, and revenue. Um. But I think what we’ve seen replace this is really interesting.
And so what’s replaced this idea of mass channels? Like give me my viral moment on, you know, Twitter or TikTok is actually fragmenting into all kinds of niche spaces. So some of that is private spaces, direct messages, small group chat. Some of it’s niche. Podcasts, micro communities, influencer groups, and often it is even niche audiences.
So B2B is an interesting world where you only need to create a conversation among, I don’t know, chief innovation officers, for example, and that is your audience and that’s your impact. You don’t need a New York Times headline. You need Chief Innovation Officers to know about your service and be talking about it among them.
So how do you create. The right kind of buzz, I guess, if you will. I think that’s what we’ve seen. Um, [00:15:00] and, and with that we’ve seen this cultural shift around where people are showing up. So in the election, um, last year, you know, yes, there was still TV spots, right? But what actually made more of a behavioral change was things like the Joe Rogan podcast and call her daddy and.
You know, Reddit. Uh, and so even at a political lens, the political strategies have shifted to say, who do we need to influence? And let’s find the niche spaces and let’s stop having these really broad mass. It’s not about broad reach anymore. So that’s the setup. Um, I’ll toss to you de to see, you know, what have you been seeing in that space and what’s been resonating with you.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, definitely have been seeing that and like everybody’s kind of, um, I don’t know, almost like safety in your own community in a way, but I don’t know who coined this phrase or if it’s even like a. Legitimate phrase, but the, that idea of like, if you’re, if you’re talking to or [00:16:00] trying to talk to everyone, then you’re talking to no one. is I’m, I’m glad to see that that’s, you know, dying down. Um, especially given that there was all these requests, like, okay, I want you to create this viral moment, and you’re like, I can’t. Predict what’s going to go viral, the people do. So then go where the people are. Um, but it’s all about actually speaking directly to those folks.
Um, and I know you, you’ve brought up a, a, some examples, um, of some of the work that we’ve done, like with Shift and how we’ve really focused in on, on nursing there. but the other piece about that is, you know, as a, as a strategist. When we’re, you know, working on our campaigns or coming up with, you know, who do we want to speak to for this, you know, ortho campaign? You know, it’s not gonna make sense to have this be a mass thing that’s talk, you know, speaking to everyone, right? Because not everyone needs, uh, knee replacements or, you know, joints or what have you. Um, that’s a very specific niche, but like, when you’re thinking about where are the [00:17:00] opportunities to grow, you know. digging into that instead of just trying to talk to everyone. ’cause if you’re just talking to everyone, the word what, what you’re saying is really gonna get watered down. Um, but I know you have some thoughts on like an example of where we really were able to to, to niche, niche down.
Stephanie Wierwille: Well, you mentioned shift and I think we should dig into that ’cause it’s been. Over a year since we’ve, we’ve shared any update, I think on our, our shift, uh, nursing work in partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. But, um, it, uh, it, it, it. You know, it’s all about creating behavioral change among nurse leaders.
And as you’re the really strategist lead on this, so you can talk, talk more about it and double click in. But I think the interesting point is that, you know, along the way and developing this program, which was about changing the conversation among nurse leaders in the health equity space, so getting nurse leaders to lead in, um, and nurses to really lean into health equity in addition to [00:18:00] bedside care.
That’s a such a hard. Shift. It’s such a hard mindset change. And so, you know, how do you do that? Do you a, just create a movement that gets just general fire? Do you b go, you know, take a top down approach inside of health systems, or do you see, take a bottom up grassroots approach? And I think what’s so interesting and unique is, you know, the team took that bottom up approach and said.
Let’s really create something very, very sticky that’s specific to almost academic nursing schools. Super small audience, but the successes, because we focused on that really niche and specific audience and all the places and spaces where they live. Facebook groups, Instagram, um, podcast, um, events, et cetera.
They then took it and made it something of their own. So share more Dez just about the learnings that you had there and maybe what could be applied to even things like an OR ortho program.[00:19:00]
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, I mean, just the idea of, you know, you know, with this partner, this client, Robert Wood Johnson Foundation saying, okay, we want to connect with and reach nurses. That was the beginning of the work. So the team, you know, we dug in and, and dug. Our research to really understand, like, okay, who are nurses?
What makes them tick? Like where are they? How should we show up? How about how should we be speaking with them? Um, where, you know, there’s a little bit of dark humor, for example. So we use that in our, in our work. But then when we got our next task of like, okay. You, you, you’re building the community now we really want them to, to act and do something. Uh, and so that’s when we focus on dismantling racism with the nursing. And really, again, went back to the research and understanding like, who are the folks that are doing this work? What are they doing? And how can we amplify, um, the work and the solutions that they’re creating? And knowing that, you know, long form content like a documentary. Is a great way to really tell a full story that only, um, long form can [00:20:00] do if you just rely on short pieces. Like you, you don’t tie everything together. Um, I think short pieces do great work in kind of carrying, um, that message forward, but that long form really, really, really supported that. And then because we featured so many different folks in this film who are, um, you know, already titans within their industry or are up and coming leaders. Uh, themselves, you know, they have been the main ambassadors for this work and it’s been incredible to watch them. ’cause now I feel like I’m in nursing talk or nursing LinkedIn where I’m like, I’m seeing all of the updates and speaking engagements and conferences and all that good stuff. Um. But how they’re, even though like, yes, we’re talking about it, the film still within our social channels as well as expanding to other topics, you know, the momentum is continuing because, you know, they are the big amplifiers because they’re living and breathing it, and they’re always bringing it up any opportunity they get. Um, so I mean, it’s, it’s all about [00:21:00] the impact and like, stuff like that. It just has this like compounding effect that just trying to go viral does not have.
Stephanie Wierwille: And I think the key point about that too is so many, I’ll call them ad campaigns. So many ad campaigns, talk at people. This is my message, this is, I want you to know, and here’s the ad, and it’s in a place that’s gonna reach as many people as we can. What’s different about this approach is. Having the people talk about you or, or just talk on your behalf and have them talk about themselves, because that’s the ego in all of us, right?
If, if I get to talk about myself and a brand is just there to create a platform for me, man, I’m gonna talk and talk and talk and talk, right? And so I think that’s what’s really cool about that strategy is every time I open LinkedIn, I see another nurse that’s sharing the story. Again, not, they’re not asked.
They’re not contracted to do it. In fact, that campaign, [00:22:00] quote unquote, is essentially quote over, if you will, right? Or that phase of it. But they’re just doing it themselves because they are so excited about talking about themself. And so I think this is a complete shift in a marketing strategy. The traditional marketing approach is who do we need to talk to and where are they and what message can we say to them it’s gonna hit.
This is a different, this is a completely backwards approach, if you will. It is. Who do we need to change behavior with? How can they talk about themself and what platform can we give them to talk? And that’s gonna have long legs way beyond your budget.
Desiree Duncan: And at its core it’s about who are we serving? and it’s, we’re serving this particular audience. And so whether it is, you know, within this nursing realm or if it is within, you know, our world of healthcare marketing, you know, we are providing services of healthcare and we want you to choose us. Um, it’s about like, okay, how can I best [00:23:00] serve?
And like, I feel like in general, uh, what we’re seeing in the brand and and marketing world as a whole, regardless of the industry, it’s about. really need to focus on serving them best. ’cause that’s what’s going to keep them coming back to us because their needs are being met and so they’re going to become loyal.
So how can we do more of that in marketing instead of just talking at folks like you mentioned?
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah, and I’m gonna bring this through to, I think, one other really important flip, just a mindset flip, which is how do you think about the moments in time when you can capture those stories or get people talking in interesting ways, specific people. So for example. Every single health system has an event strategy of some kind, or you know, they have town halls.
You know, you have maybe specific moments in time where your employees need to be spoken to, or, um, B2B organizations have conferences. They attend events. So how can you think about [00:24:00] like, all right, I’m a B2B organization. I need to speak specifically to chief financial officers. Chief financial officers are gonna be at this specific conference in this event.
I’m not just gonna go there, show up, have my booth, talk to them, shake hands, walk away. Hope I made some leads. No, I’m gonna use that as a conversation driver. So what can you do? And I don’t mean inside the conference, but I mean like, how can you. Get people talking about themselves. And then that content can have legs and legs and legs maybe even for years to come if you do it right.
So it, so a conference can seem like, oh, that’s boring, you know, but it’s, it’s not, and I think about the, the, the nurse example Des, where you all actually had an event strategy to bring people together, literally. And you’ve had 2000 plus I think, events and, and they were screenings of films, but. The film was just a Trojan horse to get people together and get them talking right, and in order to carry the message forward.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, I mean, as we were doing our research and as we were [00:25:00] filming, we just learned like, wow, this is, this is major. This is larger than we could have even imagined. Like, imagine what we can do if we can get all of these folks together in the same room. and so that’s exactly what we did. Um, as our little, our little tease of a premiere, we, it was a kind of a invite only, uh, but, but we wanted to make sure that this was in a place where real change could happen, which is DC.
Right. All of the major nursing organizations are based out of our capital. Um, and it’s accessible, uh, at least in that part of the country, right? But we were able to get our west folks, uh, west Coast folks there. Um, but about that opportunity to bring these folks together so that they can meet each other, uh. Co like cons, conspire with one another. And in fact, you know, each of them were like essentially fans of one another that they hadn’t really got a chance, uh, to, to meet. And so now we’re seeing them meeting up all the time and creating projects and, and new written uh, work, um, all in programs together.
It’s, it’s all about like finding that opportunity to bring these folks together [00:26:00] to, to amplify that. And events are a really great way to do that. Uh, regardless of what your focus is.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, last thing I’ll say about this, before we, uh, I kind of bring out the, the last point in this mindset shift. Is, um, I guess I’ll just brag on you and the team Des but I think this, this work just won a 2025 tele award, so congrats, um, to the team.
Desiree Duncan: Thank you. It’s again, another testament to like, if you’re doing really, uh, authentic work directly to your audience and including your audience of that
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: that you can do wonders.
Stephanie Wierwille: And it’s their award, right? Like it’s the nurse. It is really the nurses. Um, it’s not the brands, it’s not ours. It’s, it’s theirs. And I think, again, mindset shift. Don’t talk at your audience. Include them. Literally make them part of your board of directors. Bring patients behind the scenes. Have patients be in the marketing.
And I don’t mean patient stories, right? Like. What else? Um, and then the last just note, I [00:27:00] think of the mindset shift here is that this is a completely different measurement approach too. So we’ve been really hammering on the show and in the CMO report feature, the CMO report, the importance of measuring financial impact.
But I think there’s another type of impact to measure as well, which is behavioral change among a specific audience or impact on a specific audience. So. Back to the point we started with, which is, you know, mass reach, there is a moment in time for it, right? I’m not against it. There is there, there is that importance, right?
You still have to have your mass reach, but then double click below that and what you’re doing is saying, I’ll go back to the B2B example. I’m the B2B organization. I need chief finance officers to know about my product and, and. You know, be an advocate for it. So how do you measure that? Well, you, you have to measure mind share with chief finance officers.
Maybe you’re measuring word of mouth. Are they passing it from one to another? Maybe at those events, maybe on LinkedIn, are they asking each other, Hey, what [00:28:00] product do you like? Why? Um, and measuring word of mouth and measuring that type of, not just awareness, but. Behavioral change with a specific audience, I think is a very different approach than traditional marketing.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, it’s 1000%. And like we saw before where,
Stephanie Wierwille: I.
Desiree Duncan: know, nurse leaders, um, students, professors, what have you, they’re mentioning it at the conference that they’re going to. So then most of our requests are like word of mouth. They’re like, Hey, I, so and so. I, think they just did a screening. I wanna do a screening at my school or at my hospital. And then it just goes on and goes on. Because like when we’re in an in industry, we love to geek out about it. We love to like talk to each other and like, you know, dig all deep into it. Um, but that does wonders beyond just, you know, um, talking at audiences.
Stephanie Wierwille: Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve come full circle, right? We as humans have always had person to person, word of mouth. I [00:29:00] think there was a moment in time where it was like the goal was big mass virality, and I wanna say. No, no, no. Person to person. Word of mouth is the goal. The gold and the goal. ’cause healthcare’s always been shaped by word of mouth and it will continue to be, but how you measure that is, is where the, where the money is.
Um, go ahead.
Desiree Duncan: And definitely, yeah, and definitely staying on top of that. You, when you mentioned that about, um, essentially with healthcare, uh, yeah, it is word of mouth. When I think about all the posts that I see from friends, mostly on Facebook, but it’s like, Hey, I have, uh, this surgery or I have this heart issue. Like, you know, who do you recommend? then a million people like, or dentists or what have you, like a million people are like, oh, this person’s the best, yada, yada, yada. And it’s about a lot of times the person, uh, in some cases it can be the experience of the, the actual health system. Um, but for the most time it’s about the person because again, we connect with the humans in front of us, you know.
But is something to be said about the world [00:30:00] that brand plays in that as well, and like backing up. So.
Stephanie Wierwille: right. And that’s where the mass reach is important. Um, because. Is, you know, you’ve gotta have that mass reach layer, then you’ve gotta have the personal layer, and then you’ve gotta have the one-to-one precision targeting as well happening too. And I think it’s that middle layer that somebody forget about.
So that’s the point. Don’t forget about the, the personal virality. Um, and with that, yeah. How’s that for a corporate buzzword?
Desiree Duncan: Love it.
Stephanie Wierwille: Um, all right, well thank you so much for a fun convo Des.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. I, I, I love it when we like get all animated and we’re like, oh, yes, and, and, and.
Stephanie Wierwille: And this and that and this. Um, so for everyone listening, uh, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, we always love to hear from you. It’s always fun to hear your yes ands. So give us your yes ands or your no buts. We’re here for that too. No, but um, you’re wrong. We’re [00:31:00] happy to hear that as well. Um, and share the show with friends and colleagues to give us a review and rating.
We always love. That. Um, and don’t be satisfied with the normal push that no normal. Push into YouTube, push into the personal virality and we’ll talk to you soon.
