Full episode transcript.
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Desiree Duncan: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to the NoNormal Show brought to you by BPD. This is where we leave all things status quo, traditional, old school, and boring in the dust and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, the Gen X, while delivering the future to healthcare’s leading brands. I’m Desiree Duncan, Vice President of Health Equity and Inclusion, and joining me today is Chris Bevelo, Chief Transformation Officer. Good morrow, Chris.
Chris: Chief Gen X Officer is my new title for today. I’m excited to be here. Before we get to the agenda, which I think we’ve already teased twice now, a couple shout outs. We’ve been meaning to do this for some listeners that have, um, given us some great feedback. Jeremy, Jeremy Harrison, you out there multi care, uh, hang in there for some white lotus recaps.
We’ve gone away from that. Uh, but if you saw last night’s episode where we are, uh, recording on a Monday, then there’ll be something to talk about soon. So we’ll just hang in there. And then Alan Shoebridge at [00:01:00] Providence, we know you’re listening out there. This episode is for you, my friend, because I know this is a, uh, what we’re going to talk about is near and dear to your heart.
So, uh, shout out to Alan too. But Des, what are we going to talk about?
Desiree Duncan: We are going to talk about all things at Generations, one of my favorite topics, uh, because it gets heated. People have opinions and mostly they’re focused on their, their own generation and kind of like vouching for them. Uh, but in this episode, we especially want to talk about Generation A. X, the too often overlooked generation. Uh, but to start off, um, what generation are you? What do you love about it? What’s a pet peeve you have about, especially around what people say about you and your, your brother and your sister, and
Chris: So, clearly I already identify myself as Gen X. I am proud Gen X. Uh, I would say if you’re, if you’re talking, we could talk all day long about what makes me proud to be [00:02:00] a Gen X er. Uh, I do like all of the, uh, great accolades we get on TikTok. We’re the generation that you don’t bleep with, apparently.
People always point out like, don’t mess with Gen X, like they were roaming the streets. Um, which is true, and you get like Gen Zers who are very confused about the fact that we had to drink out of a hose and they don’t understand. You know, they’re like, why didn’t you go inside and get water? It’s like, cause we weren’t allowed back in.
Like the door was literally locked and we were told, stay outside and don’t come, don’t bother us. Um, we also are expert at scouring the internet for any slights because we are often left out of the generational conversation. This just happened like, I don’t know, a month ago. It was like a New York Times or something where they’re like, you know.
Generation Z and Millennials and Boomers, what’s the, and they just don’t even, don’t even address us. We are the smallest of the, of the, well, [00:03:00] I don’t know, maybe the greatest generation is the smallest now because they’re kind of petering out. Yeah, no. Anyway, so we’re sandwiched between the two largest generations of all time, the Boomers and the Millennials, so I’ll stop there.
Des, what, what, are you a Millennial? You’ve got to be a Millennial, right?
Desiree Duncan: I am one of those elder millennials, geriatric millennials, so kind of, uh, cuspy, uh, so I got a little bit of the freedom that Gen Xers, um, did where I was out all day long. I have bike, will travel,
Chris: Mm hmm.
Desiree Duncan: didn’t have to come home until the streetlights were on or dinner was ready. But my parents usually knew where I was, unlike, um, your generation. Uh, it was also the kind of the beginning of the helicopter parent, which has now like just grown even more exponentially, uh, as millennials are becoming parents. Cause that’s what we know. That’s what we grew up with. but what was always kind of interesting to me is like when I, uh, started my working career, [00:04:00] this was, you know, 20 years ago.
You know, it was plagued with think pieces around and about millennials
Chris: Mm hmm.
Desiree Duncan: avocado toast and how just super fixated we are on being entitled or lazy or what have you. then at the time being in the non profit sector. I remember all of these questions around, Hey, you know, we need to reach out to millennials.
Like, how can we connect with them? Yada, yada, yada. And there was a question around like fundraising. it was really interesting to me because I was thinking me as I’m a little, you’re trying to reach me. I have no money. I have, I’m up to my ears in student debt. I can’t afford a home cause we’re in the middle of a recession. yeah, don’t look at us. You need to look at the generation above, which was gen X. And then when I said that it was all crickets. Um, this was to a room of boomers who just bypassed y’all altogether, which was really. Really interesting and [00:05:00] telling. Um, but yeah, that’s why I kind of wanted to get into this conversation is because like you said, it’s often just kind of skipped over.
And, but my question is, is I only started my working career those 20 years ago, but before there were, there’s so many articles about generations where they’re just a million articles about boomers before there were a million articles about millennials. Cause obviously they forgot about movies.
Chris: I would say there was. So, you know, the boomers just, everybody just assigned them, like, especially early on, it was, it was, it was interesting. It was very much a little bit of what we hear about Gen Z now, right? So the boomers were the ones that came along in the 60s and, you know, all the upheaval then, and then they’re the ones that ushered in the economic boom in the 80s.
So they were credited earlier, like earlier in my life, which is the 70s and 80s, with like disrupting the country in a good way. And that narrative has completely changed. [00:06:00] And also when my generation came of age, We weren’t known as Gen X, we were known as the slacker. That was, that was slacker gen, and there was movies, there was books, there was all kinds of stuff.
So it, some of this is just, there’s some commonalities I think. So when a generation comes of age like Gen Z now, there’s a lot of talk about them because they’re entering the world for the first time where you hear and see them, entering the workforce primarily. But in this day and age, you hear them on social media and stuff.
Before that, they’re just kids. You might hear about them, but, uh, that’s one thing that I think is common, every generation. The other thing, which I’m very proud to rebel against is this looking down your nose at the generations that follow you. Um. I mean, it’s just ridiculous. And so I just, you know, the boomers would make fun of Elvis Presley, like, Oh, you know, he’s the devil rock and rolls.
The devil, um, James Dean is just lazy and you know, whatever [00:07:00] that just continues. So we got it. We were the slacker generation. Millennials got it, you know, Lazy and Entitled, Gen Z is getting it. To me, that’s just people getting older and more crusty in their ways. And I’m very proud to say, like, I do not have, maybe I’m patting myself on the back too much, but I actually have the opposite.
Like Boomers, I really have some not great thoughts about boomers and how they’ve behaved as a generation. If we’re going to, we’re going to cut down this whole generational kind of mindset in a little bit here, but if you’re going to stereotype, I go the other way. I go with like, Hey, you guys aren’t great.
You kind of actually have destroyed a lot on your way through and now you’re pulling the ladder up behind you. And so I got a lot to say about that, but millennials love you. Gen Z love you. Love all the generations to follow and all the stupid labels are stupid labels. They’re just old people that, that are disgruntled.
And I can say that because I’m [00:08:00] an old person. I can say that. Yes.
Desiree Duncan: reaching old, which is why being kind of in this middle part of, you know, being the generation before that was talked about quite a bit and now kind of being in that middle part where I am starting to get older and a little crustier and I see like, Oh, wow. Okay. This is where people’s heads were. And so I’ve often thought about like, so how much of this is connected to our generation and how much of this is just connected to your age or stage of life? So, yes. it gives us insight into how, you know, a collective of people have experienced the world, given what’s kind of going on societally, you know, wars economically, what have you. However, most things are a little bit more based off of More, something more universal, which is at time of life. And so kinda like what you were saying, we like young people often think like, oh, older people, they don’t get it. They’ve never done it, da da da da dah. And it’s like, in reality, honey, our parents [00:09:00] partied harder than than we did We just don’t have all of the proof of it on our Facebooks or Instagrams or, or what have you. Um, but I’m kind of curious. Your thoughts on the difference between, okay, how much of this is just a 20 year old being a 20 year old and how much of this is like, okay, yeah, millennials were entitled or lazy or too relied on technology.
Chris: it’s both right. I mean, I do think we often confuse people’s ages and what they go through, uh, with a generational deal. Right. So to me, for example, if the label is lazy, applied to a generation, that’s usually when the generation is just emerging into the workforce or entitled or whatever it is. Uh, and you know, they’re in their twenties.
Now there are a lot of, I would say in every generation, I’m an example of a Gen Xer that is the opposite of a slacker. You got people that Kill it in the workforce. They bust their butt. They work a lot, right? Um, but then there’s also the generational differences. So I would say like gen [00:10:00] x We just assume you you have to work a ton like i’m generalizing because that’s what you have to do But it’s it’s not even for most gen xers There’s not even like a mental conversation of do you work more or less or whatever?
You just did it. You just, this just pounded into you. Gen Z, I think, I hope, I think this is true. It’s a generalization. They’re thinking way more about it. Millennials thought about work life balance in a, in a, in a real way more than Gen Xers. Like that wasn’t even a thing. And I think Gen Zers are figuring out like, this is kind of a game and there’s ways to play it.
But the assumption that I’m just going to work 50, 60 hours a week, cause that’s what you do. That’s that’s just what you do is no longer just accepted as like the default for right or for wrong, right? I’m, not necessarily judging. Um, but I would say Jen actually just didn’t that just was the thing you didn’t question it So again, this is like We need to [00:11:00] put some kind of warning label on this this episode that we’re going to generalize a lot and we realize that Um, but that’s part of the point
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, so speaking of those sweeping generalizations, you know, I, I want to kind of walk through them, kind of gut check them because also I know we’re going to be talking a little bit about marketing, um, especially within the healthcare space, uh, but there’s also a piece of this that’s in the workforce, you know, because we are intergenerational in the workforce. so sweeping generalizations, uh, boomer. Known as being, or considered too conservative, materialistic, stuck in old ways, resistant to change, seen as out of touch with modern tech, overly focused on financial success, and focused on traditional values that no longer may seem relevant. So true or false,
Chris: AKA old. That’s just old. Like every generation that’s reached their 70’s you could apply that to. Most of that, don’t you [00:12:00] think?
Desiree Duncan: to a degree, I will say, though, that there are some, some kind of myths around modern technology. So there’s the assumption that like, oh, this older person can’t do these things. Whereas I know folks in their sixties and seventies who were building websites as side hustles who are. bit more tech savvy than me. I think the issue is a lot of people, especially younger folks, have this view of what old is that’s based off of some antiquated notions that just aren’t as true anymore because we’ve been able to kind of shape a little bit like what old looks like. Look at the golden girls versus the, uh, What is it, Sex and the City, and just like that, that’s the new, uh, reboot of Sex and City where those women were the same age, in fact, the women in the show now are older than the ladies in the Golden Girls, so
Chris: It’s
Desiree Duncan: of what actually is a person’s age.
Chris: I have that experience with the show Cheers, which again is just clearly [00:13:00] identifying my generation. So that was on in the 80’s. And the cast of Cheers When you go back and look at it, the old guy in that was coach, and I think he was supposed to be like 50, like, or he was 50 at the time, right? So, you look at that and you’re like, he looks like a 70 year old today, and he’s supposed to be 50, or Sam was like 32.
And Sam acts like a mid to late 40 year old in the show. So, so what was old then? I agree with that, but I think a lot of the things in there. There’s things that I think are true about boomers, like I said before, um, but it is detecting also, like we’re talking about generations that are typically 16 to 20 years spread.
That’s a big difference, especially with technology, right? Like when I went to college, we didn’t have computers. How about that? Like when I learned advertising, we learned how to typeset. Like, [00:14:00] that’s insane. So Gen Xers have been through that whole thing. If you’re like me, who’s almost a boomer, I’m three years away from being a boomer, and you’re a younger boomer, you’re only four years older than me.
So that, that’s, that person’s closer to me as a boomer than they are to the boomers that are 20 years older than them or whatever.
Desiree Duncan: yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, Gen X, sweeping generalizations.
Chris: you for not forgetting us. Thank you, guys.
Desiree Duncan: In a world surrounded by Gen X. Uh, alright, as you noted before, Slackers, there was even a movie about it, I think I have it, I think I just watched that, it was like based in Austin. Uh, apathetic, allegedly less hardworking, cynical, abusive, bit disillusioned, more focused on individualism rather than the social change. And then allegedly Less socially conscious and disconnected from the issues younger generations care about that that came from the younger generation their view of Gen X [00:15:00] When I hear from you, is that true? How does that feel especially in a world where I think about it more as okay Especially when you are making ads as you had mentioned, uh, when we’ve been doing, um, some women’s health campaigns and we were looking at, okay, we want to make sure that we’re speaking to menopause and what have you. And from the younger generation, the photo they put up of, uh, a woman going through menopause, the woman was like, I’m going to say 65, 70 years old. And I was like, no. No, sweets. Um,
Chris: No.
Desiree Duncan: in fact, even like gen X is like beyond, uh, menopause at this point. So like, you need to be
Chris: Mmm.
Desiree Duncan: their 40, someone that’s like me.
Chris: X is not beyond menopause. That, you just, you just put out a myth.
Desiree Duncan: true.
Chris: Many Gen Xers are Yeah. Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: like perimenopause. You’re right. It is still dealing with it,
Chris: I mean, who’s the, the youngest Gen Xers gotta be 40? [00:16:00] Early 40s?
Desiree Duncan: I’m 40. The, I think the oldest millennial is like 42,
Chris: Okay, so 44. Close. We’re close. We’re saying the same thing. Anyway, I think like, if you want to, the best depiction of Gen X, which I think supports some of these generalizations, but also shows you why generalizing by generation seems redundant, um, is not smart is Reality Bites. Have you ever seen that movie, Des?
Desiree Duncan: Oh yeah,
Chris: Yeah, so Reality Bites, you’ve got Ethan Hawke, who is a slacker. Who is like, you know, super cool and he’s too cool for school. He doesn’t have a job and he, and he just mooches off of his friends. You’ve got, um, Winona Ryder, who’s trying really hard to build a career. And, but she’s still dependent on her parents for money and all that kind of stuff.
You’ve got Ben Stiller, who’s a super aggressive career guy. Um, yeah, totally. And so, [00:17:00] yuppies were not Gen X. Yuppies were boomers, by the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yuppies came of age before us, but he fit the profile of a yuppie. So it’s a perfect kind of collection of us And so but again like think of the age.
They were all in their 20s Like who’s the slacker now? Who’s? 50. I suppose they’re out there, but they’re still not just smoking a bong and sitting on the couch. Like, I don’t know how they get by if that was the case. They may be bumping from job to job. But, um, so some of that is true. Cynical, I would say is definitely true.
Um, we came of age, many of us, in a terrible recession in the early 90s where you couldn’t find a job, right? Like, after the 80s, which were booming, and then you had all the disruption in the 90s, and then 9 11, and the, it just went on and on. So, anyway, I think most of those are true to a degree. I accept all of those generalizations.
I will wear those [00:18:00] labels.
Desiree Duncan: yeah, you’re right. Like when you’re in your twenties, a lot of times you can be aimless. Cause you have a little bit of freedom to do
Chris: You should be. Ooh,
Desiree Duncan: that I’ve just been like birthed into and have to now figure out and do the things that my parents did, and I don’t want to do that. Okay, so Millennials, sweeping generalizations, entitled, lazy, we’re too reliant on technology and we want that instant gratification, at times overly idealistic or may have unrealistic expectations about work, money, societal progress, too soft and not doing enough to push for real change. I will, I would say. Okay, the entitlement, I do remember hearing that a lot, but then also I did expect a lot because my parents are, teachers. They told us, well, not to teachers, but parents, especially, they told us a lot like, Hey, you are special. You are amazing. You [00:19:00] can do whatever you want. You’re going to be that girl. And that’s awesome. And so we took that and ran with it. And so when we got into the workplace and we’re kind of slapped with some what felt like antiquated, uh, realities, it was a bit of, uh, it was a bit of a shock based off of like what we had been told our entire lives. So it wasn’t that we just walked in just like all of this confidence in the title bench, you know, that’s what was told to us.
And then, of course, we got, you know, uh, blue ribbons for participating and all that good stuff is where that started.
Chris: yeah. Well, it’s, it’s so interesting to think about like the parents because it skips a generation for parents, right? And if Gen Xers are slackers, cynical, it’s because. We were literally locked out of the house and told drink from the hose. Right? So we’re very independent. We are cynical about all that kind of stuff.
And I, you know, I have my own business for 20 years. I’ve been in a leadership position, you know, since then. And I will say that I definitely ran into. Millennials that came into [00:20:00] the workforce expecting to just like run the show and you’re like, especially as a gen x or you’re like Uh, take a seat, right?
Like there’s a lot you’re gonna have to do Also, I had friends who worked in the hr space And the first time it was millennials that were the first Where they would have their parents weigh in on like a, on like a job review, right? Or like a hiring process, like the parents want to be involved in the interviewing and, and they were the first to have when Now, you know you have to, colleges have to deal with the parents, like my parents did jack squat for me getting into college Other than helping support me a little bit.
I had to go through the whole thing myself They weren’t there, like, over my shoulder making sure that, like, Oh, do you know how to get out of your classes set and all that kind of stuff. Um, so anyway, I, I think some of that is fair. Uh, but to your point is because that was your upbringing, the helicopter parent and everybody gets a ribbon and yeah, generalization.[00:21:00]
I sound like the thing I said I didn’t like a second ago, which is, you know, damn millennials. That’s not fair, but I think there was a truth. There was truth to that just like there was slackers and cynical truth to Gen X. How about that?
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. Okay. I do want to touch on that last point about that being too soft. And that kind of came from
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: and seeing the above. And I will say this, um, because it’s, I see myself not necessarily getting softer, but because like I have, you know, activism roots, I was out in the streets, I was doing the things, we were the first generation using social media to get people actually out there and not just slacktivism where I’m like, Oh, I shared this story.
So I did my part. No, we were out in the streets. However, you do get to a point after you’ve seen and experienced a lot of things where you see actually how the game is played. And so you’re not out in the streets in that way because you’ve leveled up to the next strategic thought of how to address some of these things, which to the younger generation looks [00:22:00] like, oh, you’re not doing anything, you’re apathetic, what have you. And part of that, I think, again, has more to do with age, life experience, life stage, and what have you. All
Chris: Yes.
Desiree Duncan: Gen Z, generalizations, allegedly overly sensitive, too politically correct, too quick to cancel people, and all the cancel culture and perceived lack of depth. What are your thoughts?
Chris: Well, this is clearly not, this is accurate as of November. first of last year. But I think like the whole idea that Gen Z is politically correct on the left side, you know, all the things you just mentioned certainly were disproven by the election, which showed, um, I don’t know what the actual numbers were to be honest of voters at that age, but the, the assumption was that is like a very left leaning generation.
And I think the election disproved a lot of what you’ve got there. Um, I do think they’re very much tuned in, however, [00:23:00] uh, maybe more so than like Gen X was to politics. I mean, but it’s a different world today too. I mean, social media and it’s a different world politically. Um. My kids are all Gen Z, so, uh, I see all of them with strong political opinions, uh, I see all of them working really hard, right, uh, I think people of their generation work hard, they have to, if millennials are struggling financially, I fear for Gen Z, who just, it’s not a great scene out there, so that’s a generalization, but, I don’t know, so some of that seems right, but not holistically right.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. Okay. So thank you for indulging me that we want to kind of just look at like, what are all the generations experiencing? What do you know what it’s being said? But let’s get into our topic of the episode, which is within healthcare marketing. You know, we really need to [00:24:00] be focused on this next entrant who has already been a more of a user of healthcare and more recent years. Um, I bring this up because in the land of market research, it seems to be a bit youth obsessed and always primarily focusing on that next generation. I mentioned before, I saw it when I was a millennial, all the think pieces, we’ve been seeing all of the Gen Z think pieces. And of course, you know, Gen Alpha is starting to, to come up as a huge topic, but for those of us.
that are in, you know, these types of industries, that’s a little bit more service based and not necessarily consumer and trying to get people to act now and more based off of, you know, need or even stage of life you know, Gen Z isn’t necessarily. Should be the focus it should be Gen X, you know We already are in communication with the greatest generation and silent generation baby boomers.
What have you? they are in [00:25:00] you know those stage of life where there is a lot of Complex health needs and then Gen X is next But again, we never hear about them. And in fact, I tried to do a big search on like a article, a review of this particular generation, and all I got were crickets, or like I mentioned, on the way to talking about literally everyone else. So, these are folks we’re looking at born between the ages of 1965 to 1980, and, you know, As health care marketers, we should be more focused on them because they’ve entered their prime years of health care consumption and that they’re navigating both health care for, you know, not only themselves, but potentially still kids at home, as well as aging parents. And so why has there never been a deep dive into this generation? And why do they matter now? Chris, what are your thoughts? Right.
Chris: there’s never been a deep dive because we’re, we’re sandwiched between two, two large [00:26:00] generations, both of whom were credited or right or wrong with kind of changing the dynamics of the culture. So we’re often just forgotten. Um, I’m not sure the numbers, like we should have had the numbers in here, how much smaller we really are.
Uh, but turns out there’s like. Tens of millions of us. I mean, it’s not like we’re not like there’s 3 million of us sitting around here. So, uh, it is more to your point that especially from a healthcare standpoint, we are that, you know, the classic kind of CMO persona, chief medical officer of the family.
They’re most likely to be a Gen X er if you’re talking about the woman in a stereotypical family who’s got a partner she worries about with her care, kids, aging parents, uh, millennials are moving into that as well, uh, but I mean, there’s just so much that we influence in when it comes to care, uh, plus our own care.
So we are [00:27:00] moving into the years where, uh, yeah. stuff starts falling off and breaking. Uh, so we need care and also we’re not Medicare, you know, we had, you know, we’re going to be commercially insured. Uh, we should have the most disposable income. I don’t know if that’s true, uh, because one of the knocks on boomers is they’re holding on tight.
They’re holding on tight to leadership positions. They’re holding on tight to their money. Uh, you know, I don’t know how much boomers control financially, but it’s astronomical. Uh, and the longer they hold on, God bless them, like. Live long and prosper, but they’re holding on to that money and it’s not coming to the kids.
Um, so, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know how big we really are, but we should be at the center. We should be at the center of your thinking. If we’re going to generalize by generation, we should come up with a short term for that, because that is the, that is the trick, [00:28:00] right? Generalization, generation, generalization.
I like that.
Desiree Duncan: generalization. There we go.
Chris: Gen Gen, we’ll just call it Gen Gen from now on.
Desiree Duncan: So I’ll look into the numbers that I have found around that. It’s more in the workforce. So, 49 allegedly, um, the 49 percent of baby boomers are in the workforce, 55 percent are generation X, 75 percent are millennials are in the workforce, and then 67 percent generation Z are in the workforce. So even though,
Chris: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why is only 55 percent of Gen X in the workforce? I mean, I’m, I am not close to retirement age and I am at the leading older edge of Gen X. There’s something amiss there. Do you see what I’m saying? Like, we’re not retired. Lord knows we’re not retired. It’s certainly not 45 percent of us.
So what’s up with that number? That’s a weird number
Desiree Duncan: that is a weird number. And actually, Mari, edit this because I’m going to, as we’re talking, I’m going to find better numbers. All right, uh, so, yes, that forgotten middle child dealing with a number of, um, items, but with the difference in the characteristics, there is that healthcare need, and now this is the time to act, because as you said, I guess limbs are falling off, I, I haven’t been hearing any,
Chris: Not limbs things I said things not limbs that could be limbs things falling off breaking down. Yeah
Desiree Duncan: But to your point around the commercially insured, you know, we’re always talking about like making sure, um, you know, if we’re focusing on who really needs to, um, support some of the, um, financial, uh, focus at health systems deal with. It is that that piece where, okay, we are looking at this age range of folks that are using our care on a number of different sides.
But then also, yes, to that point is commercially insured [00:29:00] should be the folks who were going after is having more complex health needs and needing to navigate that. Also noting as being the caregivers for both of these generations. So they’re navigating their own conditions as well as helping helping, you know, whether the kids are at home, whether the kids are having their own kids and kind of navigating and asking for advice and figuring that out and then making sure that their parents are taken care of, which in a way almost deals more with just kind of the logistics of the, of the health system of care, um, understanding, trying to navigate all of the, this doctor gave you this medication, which now has caused this other issue because you’re.
They’re on this other medication, and it’s really a lot to handle. And then as you’re watching your parents experience this, at least for me, I’m starting to think more about like, oh, oh God, this is not the experience that I want to have. You know, what can I do now? What can I fix now? What can I change now in order to [00:30:00] mitigate some of these kind of healthcare needs?
So then as a millennial, as an elder millennial, I’m starting to look more into more of that, um, Primary care ish world, although I know we talked a little bit about kind of this the state or primary care But that’s where i’m entering where i’m looking at. Okay. I need to get all my vitals I need to be up to speed on what i’m actually experiencing And what I need to change now in order to protect the future, I know
Chris: I was a caregiver for my parents and it is, it is a second job. Like, that is, that is a really, really, like you said, a very difficult position to be in. Um, what I think is interesting is to ponder changes in mindset on end of life. Because when I, when I saw my dad at end of life, I’m like, I don’t want any part of this.
Like give, somebody put a pillow over my face before I have to go through this. And in his situation was [00:31:00] not atypical, right? Like he just was in a nursing home and his, his standard of living was just terrible because he was, you know, sick and all that kind of stuff. And I think, you know, there’s this. The assumption that you just keep going, like you’re just going to stay alive as long as you can.
I wonder how much that changes as Gen Xers. You know, because I’m again, I’m at the older end of that and my parents are older and as more folks experience this, that we actually start seeing changes in that. That will impact health care. Uh, those. Those people that can offer the services to the, the adult children of aging parents are going through that.
If you’re a health system, uh, huge. I mean, it’s just insane what you have to deal with, right? Like my dad couldn’t figure out virtual care during COVID. He couldn’t figure it out. Like he was one, like let’s, let’s be stereotypical. He had his font so big on his phone. To read it, he couldn’t see the [00:32:00] navigation buttons, right?
You had to shrink it down. Uh, and so all of that is true. And I think there’s so much we influence in Gen X. If we’re talking about Gen X, uh, And I would also say that most of our kids, uh, are still on our health plans, right? They’re still, because of Gen Z, if they’re Gen Z, they’re going to be dependent on their parents far more than I was dependent on my parents in my generation was.
So, I mean, hey, we’re influencing a lot, like we said before, so don’t forget us. Hey, don’t forget about me, which is like our anthem from Breakfast Club. That’s our movie, Breakfast Club. I heard some millennials try to claim that as their movie. I’m sorry, but no, that is a Gen X movie. Completely. True,
Desiree Duncan: All right. So speaking of Gen X, I’m looking at some of those characteristics we talked a little bit about earlier before the sweeping [00:33:00] generalizations, but now we kind of want to look at like, you people are, values, what have you. And so this is more so based off of, um, that, that generational experience that is painted by societal, economical experiences, what have you. And so oftentimes Gen X is defined by their independence, you know, skeptical in nature, tech savvy in nature, um, which shapes their approach to healthcare. And so the thought is that if you are going to bring something to Gen X, you need to make sure it’s actual and factual. Because if you’re bringing them things that are not, uh, that can’t be backed up by data, they’re not going to, because they’re, they’re the ones that are researching it, look, they’re skeptical because of all the things you experience in the 70s and 80s, rightfully so. And so if we are putting something out there, whether it is, you know, new health tech, whether it is, um, this app, you better make sure that it works, um, especially for this generation or else you’re going to lose them. How do you, what are [00:34:00] your
Chris: true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true. I, I feel like this was, this section is written like for me personally, cause skeptical of overly promotional content could be like a bumper sticker or a t shirt, uh, for, for me. But I think that’s our, it is totally true. Right. Like you just, we look for the BS.
We’re so cynical. And so, uh, Or just even when things seem, uh, like a really good deal, like a really good offering, like a really good service in health care, we’re going to be like, Hmm, what’s, what’s the real deal here? So I think that that’s really true. Uh, and you just need to be straightforward, be straightforward and transparent and honest.
Like we appreciate that.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah. And I mentioned, you know, values. Cause again, like so much gets just, um, left to demographics and like, Oh, we’re going to market to these folks based off of their age or their race or their [00:35:00] religion or gender, what have you. And it’s like, that doesn’t tell me enough about who this actual, this person is, what motivates them, what drives them, you know, like just be like, if you look at the two of us, right.
We are starkly different in appearances, but do have a ton of commonalities. And there are those values, which I know in culture, which of course, Dr. Mark, Marcus Collins, um, that we’ve talked quite a bit about. It’s like understanding, like, what is the culture that these folks are subscribing to? What is the world that they’re living in?
And there’s a great book that I’ve been, um, very, uh, in, in depth with, which is called the death of demographics, value graphic marketing, which is looking at what are the values of this set of people, um, looking at based off of your region. So with all of that, I know that there needs to be more research done on Gen X to understand, you know, quote unquote, what makes them tick, how you can connect with them, how you can get past that skepticism.
Um, But I [00:36:00] guess I would love to hear your thoughts, Chris, on just that conversation around, you know, demographics of a person as a marker of how we’re doing marketing versus a better understanding of what actually moves and motivates humans.
Chris: Yeah, I think the the gen gen we talked about before, generalizing generations is just is one example of where marketers had to be until the last decade. We didn’t really have a choice. We had to segment people on the things that we could see. About them. Know about them, right? So we know generations were born between Gen X was between 64 and 80.
So we know that about them. So let’s group them together. Uh, we know women, so let’s group women together, which is hilarious when you say that out loud, right? Like, Hey, let’s target women like, hello, like these days. That’s like, that’s like using Stone Age tools. And I think the same should be thought of with generations.
Yes, there are shared values. Yes, there are shared [00:37:00] experiences. Uh, but I think as you target folks, you should have the power to use data to go well beyond the blunt. Demographics, like you’re saying does to values, to worldviews, to politics, to all the things that actually shape a person. Uh, because you and me are, are closer in, in all of those.
And we’re in different generations than I am from somebody down the street, who’s my neighbor, who’s my exact same age, right? Because we’re just, it, you should be using data. to segment based on the need and who has that need. And that’s going to be cross generational for many things. Primary care is a perfect example.
Uh, diabetic care is a perfect, you can name almost anything except for geriatric care, um, which by itself is. You know, or women’s health. Again, like, you’re just gonna target women for women’s health. Uh, you got that, you got that, you know, wooden axe out. The blood [00:38:00] instrument from the Paleoethic Age. Is that an age?
Paleoethic? I like that. I just made that up. It’s paleo something, isn’t it? Paleocentric? Whatever. Paleolithic? I like paleoethic, though. I think I just invented a word. I’m not sure what it means. Anyway, uh, so you really, if you are landing in a generational segment, that should be because the data has pointed you there, uh, not because you started with it.
Uh, to whatever degree you can, uh, I think we’re going to start seeing those kind of preset segments, uh, fall away as people, more and more people have more and more access to data that will help them actually hone in on the things that people need and who needs them and why. just as Gen X comes into the, the power of the most dominant generation, folks are going to stop thinking about in terms of generation.
Of course that’s going to happen when we emerge. Of course it does.
Desiree Duncan: yes, of course, yeah, y’all are, you’re, you’re the [00:39:00] powerhouse. So if you are in this state of, okay, I, we really need to move the needle here at our health system. Just look at Gen X, look at them. They’re right there. They’ve been in front of you your entire lives, but you’ve been ignoring them. so yes, they are. They’re reaching to be that dominant health consumer in the coming decade, and there’s going to be a more increasing need, but you need to actually talk to them to get an understanding of what they’re experiencing. I think all of this, going back to the data, there’s like the hard numbers of, you know, all of the computers and the ones and the zeros that are pointing to a certain direction, but then there’s the hard data around actually talking to people and really relating to what they’re experiencing to actually make that connection as a, as a marketer. And
Chris: gonna, I’m going to give a free idea before you sign off. So one of the ways that marketers apply the generational thinking is they use music. So you can tell by the music in an ad who it’s really for. Like if it speaks to you like, Oh, I remember that from [00:40:00] the eighties. That’s for you, Gen X, right?
Here’s a free ad campaign idea for anybody who would like it. I would love to see a health system go out there and target Gen X around all the things that we did or that were done to us as kids that might be leading to health issues now. So drinking out of the hose, like lead poisoning, like what’s the deal there?
How about when we were allowed to Ride in the back of a station wagon and bounce around, right? Like, are you, do you need a knee replacement? Cause you were, you were thrown around or bad back in the back of station. If you did an ad series with that. Gen Xers would come running because it’s authentic.
It’s cynical. It speaks to us alone. There’s a free concept. Take it. So I would love to see somebody take that and make that into an ad campaign and it would rock.
Desiree Duncan: because it goes beyond just the nostalgia. Like so many, there’s so much nostalgia, um, memable things out [00:41:00] there. However, when you really cut through that and like you tell the actual like experience of the person, not just the, Oh, you remember this? Remember that song? What have you then? Oh my God. You’ve really reached, you’ve really reached him.
So,
Chris: Totally.
Desiree Duncan: And build that into one of my campaigns.
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: So with that, again, talk to actual consumers, to actual humans to understand that, Hey, this is what you’re experiencing. We’re actually going to speak directly to them in order to build a true relationship with you. Because all of this is about relationships. When we’re into the service marketing, it’s about, Hey, you know, who are we in relationship with? Who are we in front of so that when the time comes, they think of us first that Gen X, they’re growing into their power. Talk to them, love them.
Chris: We’re here.
Desiree Duncan: it. We’re
Chris: We’re here. Hello.
Desiree Duncan: For all of you listening, be sure to subscribe to our newsletter, the no normal rewind, which goes even deeper into our [00:42:00] discussions you hear on the no normal show, and we want to hear from you. So shoot us an email at no normal at BPD healthcare. com so that your question may be featured in our next episode and make sure to share the show with friends and colleagues and other. favorite Gen Xers in your lives and give us a review and rating on iTunes and Spotify, preferably five stars. All of that would be greatly appreciated. And until next time, don’t ever be satisfied with the normal. Push that no normal y’all and we’ll talk to you next week.
Chris: Bye.
