Full episode transcript.
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Desiree Duncan: [00:00:00] So brought to you by BPD. This is where we leave all things status quo, traditional old school, and boring in the dust, and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, the met, while delivering the future to healthcare’s leading brands. I’m Desiree Duncan, vice President of Health Equity and Inclusion, and I’m joined by Chris Bevelo, chief Transformation Officer
Chris: Hello, how are you?
Desiree Duncan: Oh, you know, living the dream. Living the dream. I don’t know who left the two of us alone to like talk again, but here we are.
Chris: I know, I know. It’s dangerous. They shouldn’t do that. Stephanie, Stephanie is to blame for whatever comes next. We’ll just blame her.
Desiree Duncan: She should be here. She should be here. But, uh, I guess my question is did you
Chris: I,
Desiree Duncan: to watch any of the Met Gala on Monday?
Chris: this is something that, uh, I don’t even know is happening. Until afterwards, and there’s always some controversy about what something wore or what somebody, what [00:01:00] something somebody wore.
Desiree Duncan: Of course
Chris: This year it seemed to be around the kind of stealth entry or, or presence of, uh, Kamala Harris.
Desiree Duncan: that was a
Chris: Which that’s I, yeah, and there’s always something, and also apparently now it’s like a meme that people like put Katy Perry there in some wackadoo outfit, even though she doesn’t go.
And then that circulates around. But that’s all I know. Like this is not my scene. I don’t even know what the Met Gala is. I don’t even know what it’s for. I don’t know what people do there. I just know it’s where people wear cray cray outfits and that’s it. That’s the end of my, that’s the end of my knowledge.
Desiree Duncan: have different algorithms. so, so the MET Gala is put on in partnership with Vogue and there’s usually a theme each year. And this year was black Dandyism and it was really on only on my radar. I. Ahead of time. So like, I’m kind of with you. I usually catch it like after, when everyone’s like posting about it, I’m like, oh, where was I? But it was on my [00:02:00] radar because when I was in New York a couple weeks ago, I was really excited about the new exhibit that’s coming at the, met the Cold super Find and about Bud Dandyism, but it wasn’t opening yet. I’m like, oh, I just missed it. It’s not opening yet. Big Duck. ’cause it was. In prep for, uh, opening after the MET Gala.
It was like a whole like concerted effort. which kind of, so I ended up actually going to, which I was really planning to do anyways, was the Whitney. I went to go see Amy. She’s show and she’s, uh, a really prolific artist. She’s a painter. She did Michelle Obama’s portrait. Uh, for the natural national, uh, portrait gallery. And she has like a whole, it feels like a retrospective, uh, right now at the Whitney. And I’ve been seeing some other things and it feels like there’s been a lot of culmination of, you know, highlighting of folks of color and black excellence in the culture and what have you. I don’t know if it’s just me and my algorithm. But it just really struck me. It was really cool to see all the outfits. I actually did tune in. I [00:03:00] never tune in. I watched it live on like Vogue’s feed, uh, on YouTube and it was really cool. It was fun like giving commentary on stuff that I have no idea about. ’cause I am not a
Chris: It’s not broadcast somewhere. It’s not like on like CBS,
Desiree Duncan: not.
Chris: on CBS. You ever remember that?
Desiree Duncan: barely. feel like if it’s gonna air anyway, it would’ve been on e like entertainment television,
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: I don’t watch people anymore, so I have no idea.
Chris: Can you, can you you threw a lot of things at me that I was like, what’s that? What’s that black dandyism Just in like 30 seconds or less. I don’t even know what that means.
Desiree Duncan: deism is essentially this uh, it’s a form of. Dress where you are. It’s almost like peacocking in a way where like you’re very tailored, very structured. Uh, in our formal former days, it was seen as like our Sunday best. We would always dress up in our finest outfits. Uh, donning the best hats. It’s. Part of the culture, but then it’s shown up in different ways. Do [00:04:00] you remember Farnsworth Bentley? Uh, from the, I’m dating myself here and don’t hate me for mentioning P Diddy, but he was in a lot of he was a part of his, on his like group, but then he was also in, I think, Outkast video for Hema.
Hey ya. don’t remember, but he was, he, there’s been like figures of dandyism that’s shown up randomly throughout the years. But
Chris: Okay.
Desiree Duncan: That’s the
Chris: it. Got it. Okay. That makes sense to me. Thank you.
Desiree Duncan: So yeah, it was a lot of fun and yeah, it’s always kind of insanity because you’re also like, we’re watching this thing, but also the world is burning, but Okay. Sure.
Chris: The Mets a little bit caught in that fire. So some of what you’re talking about is a little surprising to me given the direct, the new direction of the Met. No. Am I thinking of the right place? I am, aren’t I? Yeah. Like the new board and all that stuff. So surprise, surprise that Black Dandyism Sur survive does the theme Good.
Desiree Duncan: That it wasn’t, [00:05:00] there wasn’t an executive order opposing it, but digress.
Chris: There we go. Des. There we go. We’re Stephanie. Pull us back. Pull us back.
Desiree Duncan: right. But you have been on your own road show. You have been traveling to a number of conferences. You were at Becker’s and Hemps, you know, kind of give us, uh, some recaps of that.
Chris: Yes. And excuse me, I have a Luton’s cough drop in because I have some kind of allergy thing where I. I will cough and you don’t want that. So
Desiree Duncan: to
Chris: if you see me like, looks like I got like a piece of chewing or something, which by the way, I never chewed in my life, so I always wondered what that’s like. But that’s a whole, that’s like a third.
I just segued like four times into, into Chew.
Desiree Duncan: I.
Chris: that’s the theme actually of my week, last week at Becker’s and, and Hemps Tobacco Chew, no, I have no idea how that’s related.
Desiree Duncan: I was gonna say, I’m like, all right, let’s pull
Chris: Um. It was a, it was a bit of a whirlwind. And I think, you know, if I had to summarize the, [00:06:00] the vibe, the vibes of the conference, there was no vibe at Becker’s because I was like, literally in and out in an hour because I had to get, hop on a plane and get to Orlando for him.
So I think it’s safe to say that I, I picked up on no vibes there because I just wasn’t in tune to what was going on at hims. Uh, I think there’s just a lot of, uh. Ringing of hands right now. There’s a lot of folks that are just kind of like, oh, what’s, what’s gonna happen? You know, again, for a reminder, I think most of the people who listen to this know what the Healthcare Marketing Physician Summit is, but it’s for health system marketing and physician marketers executives, that type of thing.
So that’s the audience. And so I think a lot of people are rightly talking about all the things happening that we’ve covered in this podcast. So I won’t go into those in the industry. Uh, a lot of talk about AI and what it’s gonna do, and interesting to me, again, this is super anecdotal, uh, but [00:07:00] different opinions on ai.
Like, I think folks on this podcast know where I stand on ai. I think it’s gonna be very, very disruptive to marketing and good to bad ways. If you’re in the industry and we’re trying to prepare ourselves and our clients for that. Uh, there were some folks who were real like, eh, you know, whatever. And one person who I will not name because I think you could take this one or two, you know, in a good or a bad way.
Uh, who is a leader at a. Creative shop just said, you know, said something like, my team’s trying to use AI to help them think. And I told them, don’t do that. AI should not be used to help. You think it should be help, help you use to do things quicker or better. But it, you know, don’t use it to think, uh, it’s, it’s not a replacement for us.
And like, you know, like, oh, they want to try to use it to write a brief. No, don’t do that. You shouldn’t use it at all. And I was just, I just sat there and listened. I was like, oh. You poor man. I think you, I don’t know if you’re, you [00:08:00] are in denial or what, what, but I have a very different opinion of that. So, so I think people are still trying to figure their, their way through that.
So, uh, otherwise there was a lot of things that we talk about all the time. I, my panel on ROI, uh, went great. A lot of conversations about that, A lot of laughter because it’s a conversation we seem to have, have to have every year. Uh, so.
Desiree Duncan: this
Chris: yeah, it was a good time. Beautiful weather in Orlando.
Desiree Duncan: Well,
Chris: It’s great.
Desiree Duncan: to keep from crying?
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: Okay.
Chris: Completely, completely. I’ll give you one example. Uh, Paul Matson. Uh, who is the C-M-O-C-M-C-O? I think of Cleveland Clinic, who’s probably in the top three. Most people would consider him at the upper echelon of CMOs in the health system space. He’s a great guy too, by the way. He is just, he’s so willing to kind of share what he does, uh, and he does great things at Cleveland Clinic.
And he had, uh, he shared out that they had, uh, run a [00:09:00] 15 month experiment where they shut off all marketing and branding in two of their markets for 15 months. Uh, what is that? Did you just see ’em balloons on my thing? We,
Desiree Duncan: that was chaotic.
Chris: I’m not sure that we should have celebrated that, but that’ll be great for the podcast.
And then he, they compared. Actual patient utilization and volumes in those two markets to choose similar markets where they had their brand and marketing. Uh, because that was, that’s the best, most definitive way to show the impact of everything you’re doing right. Rather than breaking it down. You can say, all this stuff works together and look what happens.
And they showed really, really impressive results, uh, of this is, this is the power that all the things that we do has. ’cause you can see it when we turn it off. Uh, so that’s great and not a lot of systems are able to do that. That’s very common outside of healthcare. Actually, McDonald’s Home Depot, they do that all the time.
The [00:10:00] laughter came because Paul said he had a new CFO and the CFO literally asked, how do you know people wouldn’t come anyway, which is the infamous question that people have been getting for years, uh, as marketers. And so he told the story. And when he was done, I was the facilitator and I said, so Paul did that answer the question for your CFO?
And he kind of said, well, and everybody just laughed. Uh, the problem was by the time they were done and he was able to show the response was, you know, our hospitals are full. We don’t really need new patients right now. So, but he said it was all, you know, it wasn’t all for naught because it showed the power.
And sure enough, a few months later there was an area where they needed help driving volumes. And they came to Paul and they said, if we give you more funding, can you, can you do what you, you know, showed us you could do? So that’s the kinda laughter, like you said, to stop from crying. Yeah.
Desiree Duncan: Oh, this life. But speaking of stopping ourselves from crying, there was a recent, uh, Nike a we’re gonna get into our topic for today’s show. And [00:11:00] it’s about reading the room and you know, how brands are able to do so and don’t. there was a recent never again. Ad from Nike. This was a out-of-home placement at the London Marathon, and it caused a quite a bit of backlash because if you think about what that phrase represents, which is essentially the Holocaust and other genocides throughout history, you know, it being used for a marathon and showing up at the end of the race saying never again and, you know, see you next year or stuff like that.
I’m like, Ooh. Ooh where was the re review of this? So of course Nike apologized. And that this is in another interesting example of, I guess essentially brands kind of stepping at it, of where you are. And they weren’t even really trying to make a statement here, but other brands, they’ve tried to make a stem a statement in completely amiss.
But curious, Chris, just kind of your thoughts on brands, uh, reading the room or not.[00:12:00]
Chris: It’s so funny because when I. When I saw the headline, I’m also, by the way, this is for another podcast, but I find myself increasingly becoming informed by headlines only. Like, oh, okay. I, I know what’s going on there. So I saw the ni, I saw Nike ad controversy at Marathon, and I saw the ad. And my first instinct was, oh, they’re, it was weird.
But they’re trying like, maybe it’s like a Holocaust Remembrance Day, or that was, that was like, it was, the marathon was raising money for you know, Holocaust survivors. I didn’t know, but I thought like, oh, people are upset because Nike. A shoe company, essentially an apparel company, is leveraging a very, very loaded phrase in their advertising.
That’s what I thought the controversy was. So some people were like, Hey, you don’t get to use that phrase even if you’re trying to support the cause, and no, it turned out they weren’t intending at all. I. Like they completely [00:13:00] poofed it. That was the controversy. They had no idea. They’d never forget, or somebody didn’t have any idea.
Whoever let that ad get out, whoever created it and let it get to market, had no idea that that was tied to, uh, as you said, the Holocaust and other genocides. So, uh, that’s a completely different stepping in it, uh, and almost unbelievable. When I found that out, I was like, wait, wait, wait, what?
Desiree Duncan: Yeah.
Chris: How in the world did that get through?
And nobody, nobody caught that. Nobody thought that. Uh, so that was my, my take on that.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, I mean, I, my take on that was essentially the like, oof, okay, what are the review processes for these things? And of course, like things are going to happen. Uh, things are going to come up. But in the way that we, I know for like naming and a rebrand and all that, we always make sure, and for the logos, we all show.
We always make sure to put that through, [00:14:00] you know, semiotics and make sure that they’re, that we’re conveying the message that we want to and not intentionally. Uh, creating some kind of discourse, uh, depending on what culture, what that symbol or what that phrase means within a different culture. But now I’m thinking more about like, ooh, do we need to do more of this, uh, just on a regular basis for what we’re creating? It did spark, uh, internally some conversations around the ownership of words and what have you. But still at the end of the day, you know. Brands represent something and like you have to do the due diligence to make sure that what you’re putting out there is, uh, not stepping in it, uh, whether you are actually trying to make a statement or not. I know you had mentioned the the Apple iPad Crush ad from a few months back as well.
Chris: Yeah, I think it’s a perfect example of not reading the room, right. So I think most people are familiar with it. Uh, it was an ad for a new iPad that. If you can imagine. So it always reminds me of the, the [00:15:00] scene in Star Wars and the garbage compactor when it’s crushing the garbage and they’re in there and they’re trying to escape it.
It’s a, a vertical version to that. Uh, and it’s crushing all of these things. And what it’s trying to say is that all of these things, I mean, it’s just like pallets and it’s all the things that you would connect with. Creativity, art, humanity, they’re not crushing it. They’re trying to say that it’s all.
Like we’ve, we’ve got all this built into the, the iPad, but when you look at it and they talk about AI in it, it looks like there’s, they’re smashing and destroying creativity, art and humanity. Uh, and replacing with ai, I. And hello, like if you’re in tune at all to the AI conversation, there are great fears of that very thing.
Uh, so it’s a perfect example again of how in the world. Are you that out of touch [00:16:00] that you don’t realize? Because I know they didn’t intend it that way, but, but that somebody didn’t go, Hey, Dwight, does this actually send a message that we’re destroying humanity? Because instantly people went there and it’s hard these days.
Everybody’s a critic. Everybody’s a critic. I always love to talk about the Tropicana rebrand where people, people literally like lost sleep over the new packaging for Tropicana, and you’re like, honestly, people like, what are you doing? But that wasn’t, that wasn’t Tropicana, not reading the room. That’s just, everybody’s a critic.
We talked about that 2 cent Nation that was Apple not rooting the room there. And I think like the Pepsi. Kendall Jenner, which I don’t even remember what the controversy was there, but didn’t she put like a flower and a gun or something, like a Vietnam thing or what?
Desiree Duncan: they were kind of harken it back to that original ad from the seventies. But like essentially the ad was, and this was all, remind you, this was 2017, this was. Pre George Floyd. This was like the peak, uh, [00:17:00] beginning of the black Lives Matter uh, world. Actually I think that started in more in 2012. But anyways, the ad was essentially a social, uh, protest. And then, you know, Kendall Jenner comes in and like gives the, I think there’s someone with a gun, gives them a Pepsi Coke and that’s gonna solve everything. And it’s like, oh no, that’s.
Chris: So cringe.
Desiree Duncan: Help. Help. And so trying to diffuse the tensions with the police officers by handling them a can of soda.
No, absolutely not. So it got completely scrubbed from everything. And it’s like one of those moments kind of similar to also Bud Light and Dylan Mulvaney is like, you tried it. we are also seeing that backlash for, you know, there’s no more rainbow washing, it’s kind of drying up, uh, or, uh. LGBTQ organizations and pride festivals have noted the significant drop in support for their festivals as well as brands.
Hello, target, uh, not really [00:18:00] showing the love anymore for the Rainbow because of this backlash. And it’s not because of the actual you know, social impact. It’s because of this. You are trying to step into a conversation and make your mark for yourself, your brand to show up and say like, oh, hey, I’m an ally. But when it comes to the actual rub of it, you’re not. So consumers see that, and you know, we’re already starting to see more of that backlash of like, okay, I’m going to put my money where your mouth is and I’m not spinning with you anymore. So it’s always kind of this double-edged sword of, I think you had mentioned before around, you know, great reward could come from this, or great backlash can come from this.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Two thoughts. Somebody taught me a long time ago, integrity means. Jack bleep, unless you’re willing to stand by it. When there’s money on the line, everybody can say they have integrity, but it’s not until you’re, you actually have to stand up with your values and you could lose something else that it actually shows something.
So [00:19:00] again, here you and I go, we gotta be careful. We’re not gonna spiral. But all these companies that are backing off or changing the name, to me is exactly one. It just shows people like, oh, okay, so you didn’t really mean it in the first place ’cause you’re so quickly going away from it. And two, you don’t have integrity, you’re not really, your values are.
Bleep, they’re bull bleep. Because you’re not willing to stand up for them even in the face of financial harm. And there are brands that do that. And those are the ones that you look at and go, they do have integrity. The other thing I want to ask you is, which would’ve been worse in the Pepsi situation?
’cause I think part of it was Kendall. It was Kendall Jenner. Right. So you got this like completely privileged, rich, real, you know, reality TV star doing, you know, making this gesture. Is that worse or would it have been worse to have somebody like John Lewis or somebody really represents like racial harmony?
Like I’m trying to figure out which would’ve been worse. [00:20:00] Probably the latter.
Desiree Duncan: it.
Chris: Like if you had somebody that really genuinely stood for racial and cultural harmony handing somebody a cherry Pepsi or whatever, I think that might’ve been worse.
Desiree Duncan: would’ve been worse. It also would not have happened. Hopefully like, uh, John Lewis, you know, rest in peace
Chris: I was trying to think of somebody
Desiree Duncan: Would’ve been like,
Chris: bring somebody else, he would’ve been like, uh, no.
Desiree Duncan: mind? But yeah, but it does it. Even when that type of figure who is about it, like steps into it, it’s like, wow, were you really about it? Or like, my God. But yeah, I, yeah, it was just all the way, uh, a total miss.
Chris: Yeah, total miss. Total miss.
Desiree Duncan: but you know what, I know that there’s been also some examples of healthcare kinda speaking to who our audience and what we’re up against.
I know you have a couple of examples where, you know, maybe some health systems maybe have missed a mark. I.
Chris: Yeah, and I think, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re [00:21:00] kind of talking about how brands need to read the room, and you mentioned it earlier. There are a lot of ways you don’t read the room. Like an, like the AI ad from Coke is another example. But they weren’t trying to make some kind of social statement like the, the Pepsi ad.
Nike wasn’t trying to and accidentally went there. Uh, we’re all for health systems, by the way, building brands around that. We call it the post-sale system brand. Uh, and we, a great example is, uh, we developed the brand for uc, Davis Health. It’s all around health equity. And I mean, that should be applauded.
Uh, and their whole, their whole focus is on social determinants of health. Like 80% of your health issues have nothing to do with your body. They’re about your need for food, your housing situation, where you grow up, all of that kind of stuff. So it is, there’s to us a great reward if you’re able to tap into that.
But the risk is real, uh, if you, if you do it in the wrong way. Right. Uh, [00:22:00] but there are other ways I think health systems need to think about this. Uh, and it’s a different, like if we’re talking about reading the room, it’s a different room than it used to be. For health systems, we have talked about the value attack numerous times on this show, which is essentially, uh, now it’s probably a six or 7-year-old trend of increased scrutiny from everybody, uh, politicians, regulators, the media, uh, on health systems as being kind of the black hat, uh, the, the cause of rising healthcare costs and issues in this country.
And so things you might think are okay to do, you have to be really ready for that Tropicana effect essentially. Great example just recently was Northwell Health, or not Northwell, I’m sorry, NYU Lone. Who ran a Super Bowl ad. Uh, and that caused a huge stir and a lot of misinformation. People were like, oh my gosh, I spent $8 million just to [00:23:00] place a Super Bowl ad.
Well, no, it wasn’t a broadcast, it was a streaming. Most people watch through streaming these days. So it was not that expensive. But still, you have to be thoughtful of that. You have to be thoughtful of. Okay. If we’re gonna run a Super Bowl ad nationwide, we better be ready for some people to go. Is that a good use of your money?
And I’m not here to debate whether it is or not that’s up to NYU Langone, but you gotta be ready for that. Another great way that you can step in it in terms of brand advertising as a health system is when you launch a new brand identity. So you mentioned that a little bit ago, Des so think tropic again.
Everybody’s a, some, suddenly everybody’s got a graphic design degree and is gonna tell Tropic what’s what on their freaking color orange and their new, you know, typeface and all that. Now take that and apply it to a health system that, let’s say, just updates their identity, which is, you have to do that like once a decade at least, [00:24:00] if not once every, you know, couple times a decade.
Otherwise, you’re gonna look like you’re from the 1970s or eighties or nineties or whatever. So it’s what businesses have to do. But if you have to spend millions of dollars just to update your identity, like you didn’t acquire somebody and it’s a new name and you’re launching that. Uh, though that will also draw attention.
You gotta be ready. And there was a story, I think a year or two ago about a health system, uh, that launched a new brand that had a new typeface. And really the only change was it was a very subtle change. They like capitalized their name in some different way and it, you know, there was new stories on it.
Like, is this, is this the. Way that our health systems are spending money. Again, I’m not here to say whether that’s the right or wrong thing to do. You have to update your identity. You have to launch a new brand. If there’s a merger acquisition in many cases you just have to realize that you’re gonna be faced with far more scrutiny, social media, and from the press essentially, who are gonna, who are now hypersensitive to.[00:25:00]
Healthcare costs, uh, especially as they relate to providers and insurers. But most of our clients and listeners are from the provider side. They’re gonna come after you.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah.
Chris: I remember, uh, Intermountain. Amazing new brand. Amazing new look, amazing new message. They cut health. So they were Intermountain Health and just said, we’re Intermountain.
That’s what everybody says. Nobody says Intermountain Health. Well, good gravy. If you read like the comments. That you could see on social media. Some people are like, well, I guess you’re not about health anymore. I guess you don’t care about anymore. It’s just like, get a job. I don’t know what else to say to all of these people.
Desiree Duncan: Section is gonna be the death of us.
Chris: well, you just have to ignore it. You just have to ignore it. I mean, obviously you have to listen if you’re Nike and you say never again, like, listen to that, uh. But all the people who don’t like your font and all the people, all that kind of stuff, you, you have to be okay with that, but you gotta be thoughtful.
So those are just the couple [00:26:00] examples I think where health system brands have to be careful of not reading the room.
Desiree Duncan: Yeah, no, like with our comms teams, I was just traveling with them here recently. We were talking about like, yeah, you have to be ready. Like we need to be scenario planning for, you know, any rich direction people, the public or the media is going to take this. Because everyone is like out here with like a fine tooth comb, like combing through everything and like.
Critiquing as if, like you said, like all this armchair like quarterbacking of everything. Like I remember the Jaguar rebrand and everybody Yeah. It’s just, it’s kind of wild because we,
Chris: That’s right.
Desiree Duncan: have this access in the social media, so everyone wants to jump in with their, what do you call it, 2 cent Nation.
I’ve never heard that before.
Chris: 2 cent Nation. Well, you know, every, you gotta put your 2 cents in. Have you ever heard that? Well, my 2 cents is this, it’s basically like, it’s my opinion, but if that’s how much it’s worth, your opinion’s worth 2 cents. If you are, if I am weighing in [00:27:00] saying I don’t like the new John. The John Deere tractor design, like their combines are just like, what is that?
Like who the hell am I? I am not a farmer. I’m not a manufacturer, but I got an opinion,
Desiree Duncan: Yeah.
Chris: so here’s my 2 cents. And so I. It’s just, it’s, it’s not good. And I think the other thing I’ll just throw in here, Des, is it’s not always what you’re saying, it’s when you’re saying it. So for health systems, some of this is situational.
Uh, most fo nonprofits are always aware of when federal nine 90 filings are published, which is basically, you know, their tax exempt status and it shows executive salaries and they’re always geared up for the news story about how much their CEO made or whatever. Be thoughtful about that when that’s coming out.
Are you gonna run the expensive TV ad and give them more ammo? Uh, when you are entering into an m and a situation? Be ready. People are gonna come at you. And so or like there’s been stories around health systems pursuing [00:28:00] bad debt from patients. Right. And they’ll, they’ll hire a third party debt collector and it gets ugly and then there’s a news story.
Uh, and so when you’re doing that, and then you got like a shiny new billboard and TV campaign and it’s very easy for people to go, oh, you’re gonna hit up grandma for the $5,000 she owes for her heart surgery, and you’re gonna send a collector to her house. But you’re okay also spending $5 million on this shiny thing.
I, again, I’m not saying that that’s a fair criticism or comparison, but it’s, it’s certainly possible and you gotta be ready.
Desiree Duncan: Ooh. Yeah, we’re definitely up against a lot with everyone being able to, to chime
Chris: I.
Desiree Duncan: But I wanna round out this conversation on the other side. Side around the brands that been reading the room and they’re also even doing the research. I’m always taken aback by, uh, what we’re able to actually create based off of like what, like an understanding what [00:29:00] people are navigating. So I’ll start with like from a health perspective. You know, there was an article in the. Uh, medical marketing, uh, website that was talking about how Adidas FCBI think based in Canada, they just developed a shoe that’s just for runners with down syndrome there is a video, there’s like a three minute that’s kind of telling the story around how. We, you know, runners of all types like we’re here to support, but we’d noticed that you know, folks with Down Syndrome, you know, there are things that are going on with the way that their foot is shaped and causing pain. And so Adidas did this great study, uh, around like building an adapting shoe that really fits for this particular audience.
And there note that there are like 6 million folks with Down Syndrome in the globe. So there are a lot of folks that. You know, are navigating that. But all of this started actually three years ago, uh, when Adidas and FCB introduced the Runner 3 21. This was a campaign that was encouraging some of the top [00:30:00] marathoners to and marathons reserve the bib number 3, 2, 1 for runners with down syndrome or any folks that are neurodivergent. This was a statement of important. To note some being inclusive. Uh, but meanwhile, while they were doing this, they were conducting the research to develop this shoe, which they have now launched, I think just a few weeks ago. So an incredible look at, you know, creating product. And I think we talked about this from a, chief marketing officer, like kind of what’s the future?
And it’s like, you know, owning the market, being that product being that ear to the ground of like what is actually in the need. And this is a prime example of that. The other one that I ran across and like, I think I had mentioned like, I don’t know, uh, like alcohol brands are really like killing it lately. Uh, I think I mentioned they, uh, uh,
Chris: Is that pun intended? I don’t. Sorry,
Desiree Duncan: whoop,
Chris: sorry.
My opinions do not represent the opinions of BPD or any corporation involved with BPD.
Desiree Duncan: But there was a Estella Artis [00:31:00] ad that I had mentioned maybe a few weeks back, and then I recently just saw an a Heineken ad. Uh, this is part of their, uh, social off socials campaign. So. it, uh, Joe Jonas is running around a dystopian looking city. It’s basically like an empty New York, uh, deserted.
There’s, he’s looking on his social media. He sees nothing. There’s zero engagement, and he’s walking around and like ours are flipped over for some reason. Uh, but anyways, he’s like, where is everyone? And then he discovers that, you know, they’re all actually socializing with each other. IRL at a bar. And then the add ends with, you know, social networking since 1873. yes. Alright. This is amazing because also we’re in this like constant kind of story and storm it feels like around like social media and like how we are like, oh we gotta get off of this. We’re addicted. It’s ah, it’s harmful for our health. But what I love is that this was actually based off of research. They [00:32:00] commissioned research conducted by one poll earlier this year, back in March. And basically they surveyed 17,000 adults, uh, of legal drinking gauge across the globe, us, uk, Spain, Vietnam, what have you. and really the insight came from realizing that half of the adults globally are overwhelmed by the pressure to keep up with social media. Uh, and that in fact, 62% of folks and 75% of JZ say that despite being able to connect with anyone instantly via their phone, they can feel very lonely. So this was another example of what S Rwa did as well, of like showing depictions of people actually hanging out together IRL and kind of pushing us back into, Hey, remember human eating? Yeah, let’s get back to that and like, enjoy this beverage. That part aside the
Chris: Hey, Heineken, I have a, I have a free idea for Heineken. I know they’re listening. Uh, a thousand percent Heineken should go to the top clubs in whatever city and sponsor. I. [00:33:00] IRL night where when you come, you check your phone in and as long as you’re at the club, you don’t have your phone.
Desiree Duncan: Yes.
Chris: you’re forced to actually enjoy the people around you.
Not be on your phone, not check out people’s, you know, Instas when you meet them. Not text all your friends. No, you have to, you have to. Literally, they’ll put it in a lockbox or whatever you, you know, you can charge for that stuff. And make it some kind of exclusive thing. Make it heineken’s IRL night or whatever.
A thousand percent people would, people would line around the block for that, don’t you think? Just because it’s a different experience, if not to like avoid technology.
Desiree Duncan: I mean, our generations were some of the lasts that actually got to experience that. Like, just being out in the world, just like pure joy, uh, not being tied or like, you know, hamstring to this, uh, this device. Actually there was a story, I think last week there was a big power outage in Spain. Uh,
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Desiree Duncan: a very social, uh, [00:34:00] culture and country anyways, but like, basically because like the power is out or phones were down, like a whole festival just kind of popped out in the streets of everybody just hanging out.
People got their instruments, they were just doing impromptu shows, people playing games, and I was like this is the life. Why can we get back to a
Chris: Sponsored by no one sponsored by a bad electric company basically.
Desiree Duncan: But yeah, you’re, and I see old videos and clips of like what it was like to actually go out in the world where you’re just like being present with your friends. What a concept. Uh, yeah. Billion dollar idea. I’m about to go it and create my own thing, but, so thank you Chris.
Chris: Yes, for sure, for sure. Well, I think those are great examples, and again, I wanna just wanna, again, give a shout out to uc, Davis Health, uh, because it took a lot of courage, but to your point. There was a lot of research, right? And it, and it exists out there, but the idea of the impact of social determinants, of how health and for [00:35:00] a health system, which is, you know, is business model, is completely supported by inpatient hospital care, right?
That’s, they don’t exist without that. For them to go out there and say like, look, if we’re gonna help people within the hospital walls, we gotta start by helping ’em outside, uh, because that’s where most of this is driven. And as a health leader and as a, you know, a community leader in Northern California, uh, that’s our responsibility.
And so we need to start thinking that way where they were already doing it. It was a huge. Huge kind of passion point for their CEO as well, which has tremendously helped. So it was very authentic and it was research driven. Uh, and it, and it, and it makes all the sense in the world when you think about it.
But nobody else was doing that. Nobody else has gone out that way and, and predicated their entire brand around that. Uh, so huge kudos that they’re, that they’re, that they’re finding success with it. [00:36:00] Uh, ’cause it takes a lot of courage to do that.
Desiree Duncan: Yes. Walking the walk, talking the talk. okay. So I think we are about at time, but I love this conversation and essentially, you know, it kind of sparked because of originally like in a world where statements like Scott Galloway’s, you know, talking about the know the end, quote unquote, the end of the brand era, uh, is bubbling up, you know.
You know, can we truly say that when there are these brand moments that have so much meaning and impact on folks, you know, good or bad? But of course, we’ll dive back, uh, we’ll dive more into that next time when Stephanie’s back on the show. So get ready. Uh,
Chris: can’t wait. I can’t wait for the silliness that is, brands are dead. I can’t wait. I’m gonna bring like my suit of armor and my morning star for Dungeons and Dragons fans, and I’m gonna. Beat that idea into the ground. ’cause we get it about every five or 10 years and it’s coming up again and it’s, [00:37:00] I’ll just, it’s nonsensical.
We’ll just tease it that way.
Desiree Duncan: in. All right, let’s go
Chris: Nonsensical.
Desiree Duncan: nonsensical, all the speaking of like armchair and 2 cent, uh, nation. But
Chris: Oh yeah.
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