Seal on a Seal? Cultural Moments from Super Bowl LIX

Desiree (03:08.768)
Welcome everyone to the No Normal Show brought to you by BPD. This is where we leave all things status quo, traditional, old school, and boring in the dust and celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the bold, while delivering the future to healthcare’s leading brands. I’m Desiree Duncan, Vice President of Health Equity and Inclusion, and I’m joined by Stephanie Weir-Wil, EVP of Engagement and Mindy Adams, Chief Creative Officer here at BPD. Hi, excited to chat today.

Stephanie Wierwille (03:36.248)
Hi! Super excited for this!

Mindy Adams (03:36.632)
Good morning.

Desiree (03:40.525)
Yes, obviously we’re just coming off of this super poll. so I know we want to talk all things that, of course, you know, being in our field, we’re thinking about, of course, all the ads, what inspires us, you know, where we saw some health systems and some of maybe even our own, clients or systems we frequent show up, which was really cool. A big splash from, in, in my you.

But first I wanted to kind of chat like, you know, the way we watch television, these kinds of cultural moments has shifted. You know, we used to all be watching it from our television cable, what have you. But I don’t know about you, I watched mine from Hulu and I know that some of this, the streaming kind of has an effect. And I wasn’t sure if I was getting the same ads at the same time as the regular broadcast, because it would have like the little ad in the corner, but just kind of curious, you know, where did everyone watch?

Stephanie Wierwille (04:37.141)
Hulu for me as well. So we might have had a similar experience, but I’m always second screening and third screening. You know, trying to make sure that I’m seeing what people are seeing. And it’s funny because you see some things, you know, on social media or X that you didn’t see. At least I had that experience. I saw some things that other people caught. And so I was like, ooh, what’s that? So anyway, that was me. What about you, Mindy?

Mindy Adams (05:02.986)
Yeah, old school on the couch in our living room with the big TV and also have you from the kitchen with the dips, real time, but also second screening, third screening, fourth screening with my son and husband on their screens as well. But kind of a traditional, which is which is the way I like it for the Super Bowl. A little nostalgic.

Desiree (05:20.615)
Yes, love it. I got a late start. I was like, got a late start to cooking. So still finishing up all the good snacks. So might’ve missed a few things. But of course, you know, knowing our focus, you know, we’re always chatting about how health systems can do bold work, you know, where they can show up. And there was a couple of inspiring moments and surprising moments. But before we get into that, what was some of your fun celeb moments of the Super Bowl? Let’s start with you, Mindy.

Mindy Adams (05:49.218)
Celeb moments, I, okay, don’t hate, but the Matthew McConaughey Uber Eats campaign is one of my favorites and I think they used him really well. It’s so cool how they leaned into nostalgia and this conspiracy theory, but I thought that was one of the better celeb moments of the night for sure.

Desiree (06:08.278)
There’s like nostalgia everywhere and every form. Stephanie, what about you?

Mindy Adams (06:09.646)
Yes.

Stephanie Wierwille (06:14.263)
it’s hard to pick because there’s always so many both in the ads and in this in the stands. I think what stuck out to me was the non Taylor Swift of it all. So, you know, last year it was a Taylor Swift just phenomenon, I guess, good or bad, depending on how you look at it. And this year it was not. And, you know, I think there was a moment when maybe she got booed. It was hard to really tell.

That was what I saw on social media that I didn’t see on the screen. But, you know, was it because people don’t like her or was it because the Chiefs were not winning? I don’t know. It depends on your take, I suppose. So I just thought it was interesting. It wasn’t like a happy moment or a sad moment for me. It was just interesting in terms of where we stand.

Desiree (07:08.384)
Yeah, there was a lot of just expressing one’s opinions through whether it was cheer or boo or what have you. But of course, always it feels like the most controversial topic tends to be the halftime show. Did you like it? Did you love it? Did you hate it? Were you not aware of who was even on stage? And we know that Kendrick Lamar, this was the first time that a rapper had the stage all to himself. This go round, I think.

during the hip hop 50th anniversary. was Dr. Dre and he brought a whole host of folks and his canon, was Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige, Kendrick Lamar ended that of course. But curious what your take on this particular performance was and especially knowing the entertainment value that we’re used to seeing from all of the big splashy past performances. Stephanie, do you have thoughts?

Stephanie Wierwille (08:03.4)
my gosh, I loved it. I thought it was phenomenal. It was a piece of art from start to finish and it was a statement piece. So first of all, starting with Uncle Sam, Samuel L. Jackson and sort of him seeing the whole thing I thought was really amazing because he was saying the quiet things out loud and just sort of, you know, sharing what should and should not be, I put it in quotes, showing up on stage. The other

Well, there was a lot of elements I loved about it. I loved the whole story arc, the whole narrative. I loved the just statement about America and the state of the union, if you will. But specifically, Serena Williams, I think, made a little appearance. And speaking of statement, that was a big moment, too. So I will leave it there for now. And then we can dig in more to that statement.

Desiree (10:13.055)
Yeah, I was definitely getting throwback to do the right thing, which was one of Sam Jackson’s like first kind of breakout roles where he was kind of that almost that voice of God, that voice of reason. was really the first, as soon as he showed up, I was like, okay, it’s giving do the right thing. But Mindy, want to hear your thoughts?

Mindy Adams (10:32.981)
Yeah, same. I literally screamed out loud when Serena started dancing freely, doing her thing. It was amazing. That was the one moment of the Super Bowl when all of us in the room, we had been like eating and snacking in on our phones, but literally we were all so still and literally leaning in and just like, just enthralled by all of it. It was so gorgeous.

So stunning and a lot since the halftime show that I’ve dug into and read more about and just uncovering all of the meaning. But so special and I loved, loved, loved it.

Desiree (11:04.681)
Yeah, I mean, going into the Super Bowl, most of us were thinking about the Kendrick Drake beef and how this was just like a victory lap. And it sure was. I know that there was a lot of conversation around him not not doing that song, but Kendrick’s going to Kendrick. And of course, he looked dead at the camera and said what he needed to say, which is really, really interesting. It’s just kind of that that interesting cultural moment.

So then there’s the chatter outside of the game of like, what was that if you aren’t aware of the artists, you know, what had been going on with the battle, the rap battle all year, as well as just the kind of work that Kendrick puts in to all of what he is saying. I mean, he’s a Pulitzer Prize winner. He didn’t give that for no reason, right? And so it’s a kind of Super Bowl halftime show that you almost have to watch multiple times to get all of the pieces.

I shared on my own socials impact this, what I follow on Instagram and it really went through just all of the storytelling elements and the symbolism. And as our friend, Dr. Marcus Collins, we always love to talk about, he’s always looking at what’s the cultural.

symbolism, what is the, essentially the artifact that’s being used here. And like even us trying to bring that into our own campaigns, you have like the representation of the West coast, right? And with Serena Williams doing essential the sea walk, you know, that was a nod to their history, their mutual history of, growing up in Compton. also noting that Snoop first did it on the Superbowl, those few years ago and had all of the rap giants. but it was just a really interesting cultural take of like.

who was in the know on what was going on and how they saw the performance and felt that they loved it and who wasn’t. It felt like it was the worst performance in probably their history, it feels like. But there was just so much that was being said. And especially thinking about where the country is, I think for me, I was looking at the commercials also from a…

Desiree (13:11.993)
Okay, you know, the DEI backlash, you know, what are we going to be talking about? And, you know, how are we going to be bridging the country together? And it was essentially quote unquote, for all, the for all was a major tagline. And most of the commercials that came across, there was even messaging from Brad Pitt at the beginning of the film, film, beginning of the game for uniting all, not sure that was the right, best choice for that person to give that message.

But there was a sense of a cognitive dissonance between what everyday people are experiencing these days, but then the message that was trying to kind of get across. I don’t know if either of you picked up on some of those pieces as well.

Stephanie Wierwille (13:57.264)
Yeah, I was chatting with somebody and they were saying, you know, how loud the messages were. I think one that stood out for me was the Jeep spot, actually, with Harrison Ford. Like, yes, the Ford moment at the end was hilarious and amazing, but also, you know, that whole spot was about freedom. And I thought that was really interesting because, of course, you know, freedom is this thing that

It’s what America is based on and it shouldn’t be politicized. It’s what we all want. But at the same time, it is really politicized right now because it’s just depending on what different people’s interpretation of freedom looks like and what does that mean for you and how do we do things. And so I thought that was very bold to make the entire spot about freedom. And it was less about a car to me and more about where we are. And then, of course, there was the Ford diss at the end, which was hilarious.

Desiree (14:54.614)
I, it’s interesting you mentioned that one, for some reason, the copy, the script on that one just kind of left me like who, who wrote this? Um, the overall sentiment though of freedom and essentially, you know, Jeep Wrangler being more of a, or Jeep being more of a, uh, adventure, you know, brand archetype, like it really leaned all the way into that. But of course we have our creative head here, Mindy curious, your thoughts.

Mindy Adams (15:23.956)
Yeah, I think even preceding all of the all of the messaging and the commercials was the decision and the end zone and the message there. So it was definitely an undertone across the board and a rally, whether it was a successful attempt or not, to your point, and as about, you know, intention versus impact is always always in question. Another thing that I think did land a lot better, though, understanding the climate is this Super Bowl felt like levity was really embraced a lot more. And we’re going back to levity and

It was a lot lighter overall. I felt it was a lot lighter than Super Bowl’s past and that felt appropriate for a game and a ball game and what we all needed. And if we’re really going to to connect in an entertainment space, let’s let’s be real and entertain. Yeah.

Desiree (16:13.337)
Yes. Yes. Okay. So let’s keep that same train of levity. and Mindy went to hear, was your favorite commercial?

Mindy Adams (16:21.006)
Well, my favorite wasn’t one of the funny ones, although there were so many amazing moments, like uproarious laughter in my house over the sloths, for instance, and the case of the Mondays. My favorite spot, and sorry, Steph, because I know this might be yours too, was the Google Pixel dream job. I just was a puddle. I had seen the long form before the game. I was a puddle when I watched it again. The storytelling was gorgeous. I long lived storytelling and film.

But what was so cool about it is that it was actually promoting Gemini and this AI tool, but they used the most human and vulnerable story and experience of parenthood and family to really sell this AI tool, which I thought was pretty incredible. So that was my favorite. I had a couple others too, but Steph, I want to let you have a crack.

Stephanie Wierwille (17:11.555)
Yeah, no, we I think we’re in agreement that the Google Pixel was really my top spot because I thought that the couple things one, it was just such a beautiful, emotional way of sharing the product and sharing it and how it’s really integrated in people’s lives and the the power that Gemini and AI can have. But I also just loved like the, you know, the full time dad coming back to the work world and telling his story. It was just it was just really

really powerful. And maybe the best, I’ll say the best way that I’ve seen an AI platform really show its place in the world.

Desiree (17:54.929)
Nice in the world. Okay, my favorite and I guess my favorite coming from an emotional place was Pfizer, big pharma really showed up in a tear jerking way. It’s funny when it first popped up and we saw the young child in the hospital bed, I was like, oh, who’s this? You know what, Brandon? I was like, is it gonna be a health system? Is it pharma?

but seeing Vince McMahon kind of pop up in a nostalgic way, putting on the, I don’t know if there was a, at first I thought they were like wrestling, shoes, I think I guess they were boxing shoes. There was like a lot of mixed messaging there. but just seeing the kid do the walk of, fame, not shame, and just really being celebrated and then kind of just getting to that end and be like, okay, who did this? And of course it was, it was Pfizer.

that was my, my favorite from a cheer-dricker standpoint, from just sheer fun. I loved seeing all of the shit’s Creek casts, show up in different commercials. shout out to Eugene Levy’s eyebrows and facial hair, having a moment flying all over the globe for various reasons that are unknown. But to me, it was the Catherine O’Hara, Willem Dafoe.

All about that Mick Ultra match that really just like set my heart aflame. I know Mindy, you had a couple other favorites as well. What were your others?

Mindy Adams (19:24.714)
Yeah, can we talk about the facial, the flying facial hair and how to, I loved the way that they in a social space solved that and committed to Pringles and Little Caesars doing something together. That was amazing. Yeah, I loved all of the fun stuff too. I also love Novartis. I thought execution aside, the idea was so smart and like.

May I have your attention, please? Like the thing that has so much attention but literally doesn’t get the attention it deserves. I also really appreciated the ones that were about action. Loved the potty break from Angel Soft. Like no one else could do that. And even Starbucks, like giving you a free coffee the next day after the Superbowl. That’s something that’s really just living their brand. And I thought it was lasting power beyond the few seconds of airtime.

Desiree (20:12.707)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, Stephanie, what were some other runner ups for you?

Stephanie Wierwille (20:17.624)
Ooh, well, Mindy’s covered a lot of the good ones. The mustache flying away was pretty interesting. I mean, I was just happy to see Poppy there. I’m not sure it was my favorite, favorite, but Poppy the soda, non-soda, I think is exciting and the way they pulled in all manner of influencers into that. So yeah, I think we’ve covered them.

The hits at least.

Desiree (20:42.17)
And I know we’ve talked a little, well, one last hit Nike. I know we’ve talked a little bit about it, you know, kind of coming back with the, you can’t win. So when almost like, this a just do it replacement? and just all of the, you know, women in sports really showing up strong. I, I’m, I’m assuming this is a lot of emphasis from, you know, the WNBA and women’s basketball.

with college just really blowing up these last one to two seasons, they really kind of sparked that. But knowing that, of course, getting back to that healthcare, there were a couple of health systems that popped up, NYU Langone, from a national standpoint, just kind of curious, Mindy, your thoughts around just kind of seeing these types of health system brands in our world just really showing up in a big way.

Mindy Adams (21:37.694)
Yeah, it’s exciting to see there’s there’s no much there’s no industry that’s more deserving of innovation and creativity than than health. I wish that we hadn’t been outdone by the pharma of the world by the Pfizer’s like Novartis, some pretty amazing stuff. But nationally and locally, I think in my market in central Florida, a lot of local systems getting in there for airtime. think we really should take a play out of the playbooks of these bigger brands and show up in different interesting

ways and zag when everyone else is zigging to really get the attention because the three again that I saw were pretty pretty copy paste you can swap out the logo so lots of lots of opportunity for innovation for sure.

Desiree (22:20.834)
know all three of us were in different parts of the country and I want to know Steph, kind of what did you see from a local health standpoint?

Stephanie Wierwille (22:27.949)
actually didn’t see any local health, but that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t there in Nashville. just, you know, I don’t always catch every single moment. But I do have to say the NYU Langone nationwide spot caused the most stir in my feeds of like the healthcare people saying, what’s going on here? Why are they doing this? I have lots of thoughts on that. Lots of feelings. Very frustrated.

so I’ll just leave that there. We can come back to it. Yes, it does, Des. So, you know, I think it’s just from from at least where we sit, you know, on the on the health system side of the world, it’s frustrating that when you run a national Super Bowl spot or even a local one or even a regional one, like the backlash is there. And, you know, totally agree with you, Mindy. A lot of the creative from our

Desiree (23:00.686)
Does it have to do with the value attack?

Stephanie Wierwille (23:26.06)
from the health system world, wasn’t maybe standout, but if it were, would they have gotten even more backlash on production? I mean, some of them use celebrities, so I think there’s that too, but it’s just the conversation is, why would you spend that much money on marketing? Because your health system, shouldn’t be making any money. And from the value tax standpoint, we’ve talked a lot about how health systems are just continually getting slammed harder and harder for the rising cost of care, and they’re not.

They’re not really the problem in all of this. And you have to do great marketing in order to have the mission that you need, right? In order to serve people, there has to be margin. And people just don’t understand that. And I’m frustrated because Oreo or whoever can go out Budweiser, you know, we love the Clyde deals, Clyde’s deals, but they’re selling beer. Nobody gets mad that they spend eight, $10 million every year, but yet they’re making our health worse.

I could just soapbox all day long about that, but I’m very frustrated because here’s the brands that are doing good in the world and we’re not allowed to have a voice. So something’s wrong.

Desiree (24:37.933)
something’s wrong. And I know you had also kind of mentioned just inside conversations around the his and hers kind of showing up in a big way.

Stephanie Wierwille (24:46.829)
Yeah, I love that one and struggle with at the same time. Hims and Hers, first of all, I think they’re a phenomenal disruptor brand. I think that what they’re doing in retail is amazing. think that where they’re getting medication out to people in lower cost ways is phenomenal. I love them as a brand. And I love this narrative that they had, the story that they told around how the system is broken. And they showed the fact that we’re shoving food.

literally down people’s throats from an advertising standpoint and in the world. And at the same time telling people they’re too obese and obesity is a huge health problem. So I loved all of that. What I struggled with a little bit was that medication is the answer. Love the low cost medication. It was sort of a dig at pharma. That’s great. But I’m like, is that really the full answer? So we’re saying the system is broken, but then we’re just going to go to medication. So that was hard.

Desiree (25:39.147)
Yes. Great, great point on just more of that kind of, cognitive dissonance of, know, what is health, you know, when we’re pushing all of these, you know, junk foods and alcohol and beer and what have you. But then we have this other messaging, from take a pill to fix all of that stuff that you just consumed from these commercials. but the one piece we’re going to transition into our, our next topic is AI, showed up.

quite a bit if you could spot it. Some ways were kind of lovely where you’re bringing some historical photos to life in a way which is interesting. But then you had Seals face on a seal and all of the good, the bad, the ugly. But it kind of takes us into a question around like where are we going creatively? And that’s why Mindy, we wanna always hear your thoughts on just kind of, A, where we’re going, but then also what’s inspiring you now.

Mindy Adams (26:39.15)
Yeah, it was fascinating. I was most excited to see how different this was going to feel this year now that AI isn’t on the scene in earnest. Not that it hasn’t been there, but first, can I get a thumbs up or a thumbs down on a seal? Real fans or not fans?

I know, I know. It’s like, you can’t look away. It’s like, you had to watch. It was so fascinating. What I love about all of this more than anything, it’s like re-energized creativity and it’s become competitive. It’s like, who’s gonna harness this best in first? It’s opened up a whole new world and it just reignites all of that, all of that creative spirit. And there are so many unknowns and there’s so many ways that we could go. I feel like people are experimenting more now than ever before, which is most exciting because

People are willing to experiment, to take risks. And truly, that’s the only way. Being brave is actually, we talked about this a lot, being brave is actually the smartest thing we can be because it is going to make you memorable. Love it or hate it, you’re not gonna forget that image is burned in your brain. Seal on a seal. So that is really exciting to me. It’s it’s kind of this new playing field out there, this new match and who’s gonna harness it best first and most interesting. It’s exciting.

Desiree (27:52.172)
as people just kind of going for it with some of these ideas. I mean, with these commercials, not much really stood out as the most powerful thing, but it’s going to be interesting to see more of that creative human aspect versus that creative robot aspect. But curious Stephanie, for you, what’s kind of inspiring you these days?

Mindy Adams (27:54.733)
Yeah.

Stephanie Wierwille (28:19.327)
Yeah, and I think that an interesting, I’m just interested right now in where are we culturally on events like this? Are people getting together for events like this? Are people watching separately? Are we turning to Hulu? Are we turning to our screens? Are we doing Super Bowl parties? Are mass media events a way to bring people together or are they a way to pull people apart? I don’t know the answer to that.

But I think it’s an interesting, you ask what’s inspired me, I think it’s just an interesting thought path, I guess, thought hole, because, you know, back to the healthcare side of things, it would be wonderful if we could bring people together and capitalize on events. But at the same time, when you try to, it doesn’t always land in a united way. So, I don’t know. That’s just what I’ve been thinking about for the last 48 hours given this moment.

Desiree (29:19.817)
Yeah, I’m not always a big Superbowl watcher. mean, I do, if I’m invited to a party, I usually try to go because snacks, and people love being around people. but this is kind of like, you know, award season, you know, this is almost like coming out of the holidays, you know, January is a little bit of that lull and also recovery from all the peopling, and all the money spending and

February brings in this sense of, okay, now we can start to get back together again, you know, for these big tent pole moments. But to your point, Stephanie, are we actually, and this was really interesting to see happen kind of, in game. There was the, what was the ad that had the, connectivity? was rock. Was it rocket? yeah. So, yeah.

Mindy Adams (30:09.25)
Rock it, West Virginia.

Desiree (30:12.734)
Yeah, it was a really cool segue from the commercial to an in stadium experience where like the song was playing, but then like people were singing, take me home country road, like in the crowd. It’s like just kind of creating that like, yeah, that sense of the, collective. just kind of curious, even your thoughts as well, Mindy.

Mindy Adams (30:31.894)
Yeah, that was such a beautiful moment. What a dream to bring to connect it from that space to a real life moment in the world. And that song, it could have fallen flat, but for Rocket and that sense of home and belonging and community, I thought it was well done, a really good choice. And I’m glad the crowd was in and participated and came together on it. was pretty cool.

Desiree (30:54.772)
And I guess I always kind of wondered, know, we pay attention and notice these things because we’re essentially always our eyes, our ears are trained for it. But as your, you know, general consumer, general viewer, do you, do you pick up on these things? Did you hear from your, the folks you were watching the game with about whether they picked up on some of these items?

Mindy Adams (31:00.088)
Yeah.

Mindy Adams (31:17.474)
I don’t know how much of it was picked up on in real time, but certainly like in the minutes and hours following with all of our screens. It is cool. And you get to read, these moments aren’t a one-off. Their shelf life gets extended a little bit, which is pretty cool. But I think those are the kind of moments that you need to lean into and capitalize on to make your one moment in time last longer and stay a little stickier.

Desiree (31:42.73)
So what is happening in creative? What’s been the AI impact? We talked about Seal and Seam and some of these pieces, but what’s the good, the bad, the ugly of this?

Mindy Adams (31:59.458)
from a creative perspective. And I think it’s still the, the early-ness and the infancy of it. And Stephanie and I talk about this all the time. It’s understanding like right and wrong ways to do it. And there’s so much unknown out there. So I think, I think we’re just like baby stepping into, into deep waters here and understanding from a legal perspective, from a ethics perspective, what’s possible and what’s not. But we have to, we have to learn, we have to understand, we have to use it.

because it’s coming, it’s moving faster than anything I’ve ever experienced in my life. I think we just have to, again, think about what’s the best thing that could happen, what’s possible, how can we use it for good, how can we ever use anything for good. If we focus on that, I think we’re gonna be okay.

Stephanie Wierwille (32:48.818)
Yeah, that’s great. think we’re not there yet on what that looks like, Mindy, right, as an industry. I think right now the industry, and I mean marketing and communications broadly, not just healthcare, we’re in a test and learn phase, and so is the world. And that’s what’s exciting to me, is we’re in an experimentation phase.

And we can try some things, whether it is some of the examples you all have just shared or, you know, other things, whether it’s building AI, you know, tools that could run alongside advertising and actually bring people into an experience, which I haven’t seen yet, or whether it’s AI enabling something that’s never been done before, which I haven’t seen yet. Right. So there’s a lot of things that we haven’t seen yet. And I think that’s what’s exciting is we’re at the early days of the Internet. I mean,

We’re at the prodigy days, we’re at the AIM days, the AOL days, the what if days. And that’s what excites me about it. And actually the best work that I see is in LinkedIn. It’s not on TV, it’s not even in social media, it’s not in advertising, it’s people on LinkedIn that are just testing things at night. And they’re like, I stayed up all night last night and I produced this thing. That’s the best stuff right now is almost like being a student.

And how can we take the mentality of to get this right, we have to stay up all night and be a student in ways that are maybe not even applied to work. And that’s what’s interesting to me.

Mindy Adams (34:24.066)
Yeah, I will say it it was nice in the Super Bowl to have these moments coexisting side by side. You had the seal’s face on a seal, but you also had this little girl running for dove that was so pure and practically shot. You had Taco Bell leaning into UGC. It was really beautiful. It was like this tapestry that we’ve never seen before. And it just like expanded our universe. So I hope.

Desiree (34:24.434)
Yeah, it’s this.

Mindy Adams (34:50.572)
My hope is that those things can always coexist. have purity and the raw human emotion and experience, but just amplified in whatever way that looks like with AI. That was so cool to see those things, all of those things living side by side.

Desiree (35:07.024)
And yet to that point, it all living side by side, but being able to see this thing come to life like real time, it’s even playing field where everybody’s learning at the same time at the same speed. And we’re getting to see almost like the humanists of blunders from, you know, the pros where, know, they’re, they’re tooling around with it, just like we are and seeing what they kind of come up with. No, and they’re more under, under deadline for things. And so it’s like, got it.

This is the best I could do within this timeframe. we’re going to print, we’re going to air, versus, know, what we’re able to do and kind of tinker with, in our own, time. but I know that there’s a number of, you know, courses and training and things kind of popping up on how to really harness this, in a really more impactful way. I’m just, I’m just still so deeply curious about there’s this group called curious refuge.

who they have a number of AI filmmaking courses, but there’s one in particular that’s about documentary making with AI. I think I’m gonna actually do, I think I talked about it on the last episode because obviously obsessed. I think I’m gonna actually take it because I’m just so curious because I’m coming from the mindset of, I am a…

not necessarily a generalist, but a devotee to the camera of like what the lens can pick up, right? And I know Mindy, you’re dedicated to the art of word and you know, what stories can we tell through that? And for me, it’s always been a, want to help other people tell their story. So I’ll do that through video and photography. I want you to see the world through my lens. But then it’s taking that form, that raw form, and then what can we then…

do and kind of like shoot it out into the mood, you know, with these various tools, you know, with, with creativity. Cause I’m, I’m not a person that could just sit down and create something out of thin air of the way that, you know, folks like Mindy and even Stephanie can just create like, here’s a whole temple. I’m like, wow, how did, how did you even get there? but I’m curious more, some thoughts around the idea of mixing the two, worlds of like, you know, what we actually create with our hands, our little human hands.

Desiree (37:27.418)
but then how we enhance and optimize it with all of these other creative tools.

Mindy Adams (37:33.166)
I think it’s so interesting what you said, creating something from scratch because that’s the beauty of AI is you’re never really starting from a clean slate. But there’s caution there too. And Stephanie’s our subject matter expert, but I was fascinated by Cheese Gate. AI isn’t always foolproof and we have to be very, very careful. I’d love to hear what you think about all that stuff and how they handled it.

Stephanie Wierwille (37:58.796)
Yeah, it was really a moment. Cheese gate. I love that phrase. Yeah, so where there was an oopsie, I think it was Gemini again, right? I believe that had the fact around Gouda is the most popular cheese in the world. And there was a percentage and it was really high that was inaccurate. And so they had to pull it and actually change the language around it.

Mindy Adams (38:02.958)
you

Stephanie Wierwille (38:26.512)
I mean, here’s the thing. Sometimes I think that the news runs with that stuff a little too far and it’s like, okay, that could have happened to anybody with or without AI. And that’s my feeling on these inaccuracies is like, yes, we have to fact check and yes, we have to understand that hallucinations are real. They are continuing. You know, they may get better and better, but there’s always inaccuracies. But then I stop and I ask the question, could a human have made that same mistake too? And the answer is absolutely, right? And in some cases where I’ve experienced maybe a little

disconnects in logic or little issues like that in work, that same thing could have happened if it was human created. So I’m not saying we don’t worry about it. I’m saying we need to understand it and understand it deeply. And then where the humanity comes in is, one, sharpening our stories and our creativity, but also keeping a good eye out for that kind of stuff early.

Desiree (39:23.253)
Yes, yes. Team human. I know I want to just run off to the coffee shop with both of you and just kind of keep talking, but we do need to wrap and yeah, this really just always a fun time of year to really talk about really wax poetic about advertising and all that beautiful stuff. for all of you listening, be sure to subscribe to our newsletter, the No Normal Rewind, which goes even deeper into our discussion to hear here on the No Normal Show.

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