Let’s Talk AI with Paul Roetzer, Founder of Marketing AI Institute

Stephanie Wierwille (00:01.528)

This is the No Normal Show brought to you by BPD. This is where we leave all things status quo, traditional, old school, and boring in the dust. And instead we celebrate the new, the powerful, the innovative, the future. All related to how brands can lead the way in health. I’m Stephanie Weirwill, EVP of engagement here at BPD, and I’ll be your host for today.

And this is a really exciting episode. We’ve got some very special guests here. First up, I’m joined by Chris Bevello, Chief Transformation Officer at BPD. Hello and welcome back, Chris.

Chris Bevolo (00:34.157)

it’s great to be back. It’s been a while. It’s been too long. So great to be back. Yes, especially for this episode. I would not have missed this one.

Stephanie Wierwille (00:36.832)

It has been too long. Yes. my goodness. I am beyond excited, like beyond, because we have a new guest with us and that’s somebody that Chris, you and I are just absolute fans of. Like I would say we’re even stands maybe of Paul Raitzer, founder and CEO of the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Institute. Hello, hello, Paul.

Paul Roetzer (01:01.272)

It’s great to be with you both. am very much looking forward to the conversation and being get together in person in the not too distant future.

Stephanie Wierwille (01:08.856)

That’s right. Yes, this is a little bit of a teaser for that in-person session, which a lot of our listeners will be there for too, and we’ll chat in a little bit about how, if you’re not already planning to join us, how you can. But I’ll just give a little bit of a background on Paul. think Paul, most people know you. I think everybody pretty much knows you at this point, but for those who don’t, Paul Raitzer is the trusted voice on AI applications and marketing. I would say kind of the…

the industry AI whisperer. He founded the Marketing AI Institute after decades of experience consulting for hundreds of organizations and serving as the founder and CEO of a HubSpot-focused agency. And he literally wrote the book on marketing and AI. It’s called Marketing Artificial Intelligence, AI Marketing and the Future of Business. He also created MAKON, the Marketing AI Conference, which some of our BPDers have actually attended this year and really, really enjoyed in Cleveland.

Also host the artificial intelligence show podcast along with Mike Caput, which Chris and I are both devoted listeners to. We do not miss an episode. So thank you for what you’re doing. Yes. I actually went back and looked at my Spotify history and I’ve listened to every episode since June of last year. I do not miss a Tuesday. Tuesday morning is a big morning around here.

Paul Roetzer (02:16.242)

Thanks for listening.

Paul Roetzer (02:23.986)

That’s wild.

Stephanie Wierwille (02:30.318)

If anybody out there is not listening, Paul, I would just say go listen to that podcast. It is your educational digest.

Paul Roetzer (02:37.244)

Thank you. Yeah, it’s for me, it’s like, if I always joke, like if no one listened, we would still do it because otherwise I don’t know how we would keep up and like make sense of everything happening. So it’s our forcing function to just make it all make as much sense as we can. And so it’s valuable to me and I’m glad it’s valuable to other people as well.

Stephanie Wierwille (02:58.754)

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense when you share your perspective. So I can’t wait to hear what you’re gonna share today and in December. So speaking of December, just a quick little note about what we’re talking about there. Paul is gonna be hosting a panel at BPD’s Joe Public Retreat, which will be in Charleston, South Carolina on December 4 through 6. And several people I think know have been to the Joe Public Retreat before, it’s been around for quite some time.

But we’re excited to host it again and what it is for those that haven’t heard it’s an intimate discussion and gathering and multiple days of sessions with the top health system CMOs and marketers in the country. It’s really kind of a closed-door conversation type of gathering where we can get together and talk about the biggest challenges facing marketing today.

And so one of the topics we’ll cover in December is AI’s impact on the role of chief marketing officers and really to marketing in general because it is having a huge impact, of course. And so we cannot wait, but we’ll do just a little bit of a teaser, a trailer of sorts to that today. So thank you again, Paul, for joining us in December and for joining us this morning.

Paul Roetzer (04:10.715)

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Stephanie Wierwille (04:12.982)

So maybe before we get into December, I think we actually have to touch on one of the big, the biggest topics on everybody’s mind this morning, which is Friday, November 8th. So it’s been a big week here in the US and the world, right?

Paul Roetzer (04:28.963)

It has definitely been a big week. think that’s safe to say.

Chris Bevolo (04:31.82)

Claude announced something, is that what we’re talking about? No? Okay.

Stephanie Wierwille (04:35.97)

Yeah. Yeah. So it’s going to be interesting to see over the next four years how in the US, what kinds of overarching shifts are made on AI from a policy standpoint, from a governmental standpoint, given the election results. So I’m just very curious, Paul, I know you are leaned all the way into the minute by minute, second by second changes happening in the world.

around artificial intelligence. So I’m curious as you’ve watched the last 48, 72 hours roll out, are there any things that come top of mind that you think we should really be paying attention to given election results and given the fact that several in the new administration really have their eye on AI in a unique way?

Paul Roetzer (05:24.198)

Yeah, so, you know, in a non-political way, just an objective observer, you know, understanding that some of the country’s really happy about the results and some are, you know, sad and upset. Our job is to try and provide the reality specific to AI, not provide political commentary. So in that vein, I will say there’s a few things people should keep an eye on. Open source technology is going to accelerate.

So the administration is going to be very bullish on open source. The campaign, the Trump campaign was heavily funded by Elon Musk. So he spent somewhere in the range of maybe 130, 140 million that we’re aware of to fund the campaign. So it’s going to be very good for XAI, Elon Musk’s AI company that has last raised 6 billion. I think they’re raising more now.

So Elon is going to be in a very good position to influence what happens and his technology and his various companies should stand to benefit that on the opposite coin doesn’t probably bode well for open AI because Elon Musk has a rather significant grudge against Sam Altman and open AI because Elon was a co-founder of open AI was sort of pushed out in 2019. And so I would guess Sam.

Altman is going to have some struggles here. He’s going to have to make peace with Elon in some way. The executive order from the Biden administration that came down in October of 2023 will likely get repealed on day one. So that’s something to keep an eye on. And then the other two components I would mention would be there’s the EAC movement, this sort of accelerated all costs movement in the technology space. And then there’s sort of the people who want to slow things down.

This is very likely to move toward the accelerated innovation side JD Vance his political career was funded by Peter Thiel So if you want to see sort of the emergence there You can actually track Peter Thiel’s feelings on things and that’ll likely be an indicator of what the administration would do and then anybody who’s optimistic about Slowing down climate change is gonna have a tough four years. They’re they’re gonna accelerate

Paul Roetzer (07:43.99)

And that’ll be at the cost of some of the climate initiatives that were going on. So lots more to unpack, but it gives you kind of like five or six things that fairly confident will be true moving forward.

Chris Bevolo (07:58.912)

Yeah. I think the only thing I’ll add to that is Paul, just seems like when we get in these situations, some things seem so clear, like, boy, this is just going to unshackle innovation and regulation is going to fall by the wayside and any concerns about the energy needed to drive AI are just going to be put in a closet locked in a box and you know, whatever. it just seems like history has taught us like it never

Stephanie Wierwille (07:59.214)

Okay.

Chris Bevolo (08:28.916)

quite goes that way. you know, talking about Elon Musk and our, our next president while they’re close now, there’s, you know, lot of people speculate that’s not going to last because you’ve got a couple of big egos. Right. Yeah. So it just, you know, we also know that the, the, the former and future president has gone after companies individually that he doesn’t like. So again, like with Sam Altman,

Paul Roetzer (08:42.086)

Yeah, I’d like to see the betting odds on how long that relationship lasts, actually.

Chris Bevolo (08:58.848)

But who knows where that could land that could blow back on. So it’ll just be interesting to see what seems obvious now. Reality seems to take us in weird turns. So it’ll, you know, maybe you’ll have to switch to a daily podcast to keep up with it.

Paul Roetzer (09:11.9)

Yeah, it’s going to be a dynamic environment. You are right. There’s lots of egos, lots of variables. Nobody really knows, but yeah, it’ll be interesting. I feel like to go any further would probably start getting into political elements of this that none of us want to get into.

Chris Bevolo (09:29.706)

Yes, I probably already went there. I tried my best not to, but I think everything I said was historically true. so that will just leave it there, Stephanie, we can move on.

Stephanie Wierwille (09:30.882)

Ha!

Paul Roetzer (09:36.806)

Yes, yes.

Stephanie Wierwille (09:40.203)

Okay, so the takeaway is it’ll be interesting, it’ll be a ride, period.

Paul Roetzer (09:45.616)

Yeah, it’s a lot of unknowns. But yeah, mean, the same things hold true. The US has to win. They know that. How they win, how we ensure democratic values within these AI models, how we control the infrastructure, the data centers, the chips, all of that still matters. How each administration pursues those goals is the thing we’ll have to wait and see.

Chris Bevolo (09:45.675)

Yes.

Stephanie Wierwille (10:12.556)

Yeah, and I think it’s critical to recognize even as marketers or, you we’re talking about CMOs here today in our topic that AI and politics are very much intertwined and policy very much affects it in the same way as healthcare and politics are very much intertwined. So it’s important as we all continue our journey of AI literacy to keep an eye on what’s shifting and changing in the politics and policy world.

Paul Roetzer (10:38.65)

And Stephanie, one final thing I’ll note here is like a really tangible outcome for CMOs and marketing leaders is what happens with copyright law. we actually just yesterday, OpenAI won a copyright case against, I forget the raw story, or I forget what the media company was, but the judge basically threw it out and said like, it’s, it’s the copyright issue is non-existent and these things aren’t.

Stephanie Wierwille (10:47.533)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Roetzer (11:03.442)

plagiarizing anything they’re performing like humans would. And if that’s what like holds true moving forward, then we get into a whole nother world where, cause right now, if you’re a marketer and you use these tools to create content, you don’t own a copyright. And the U S copyright office hasn’t shown an indication of desire to quickly change that. And so that could be something that maybe this administration wants to accelerate innovation. And so like, let’s just get rid of this issue.

That’s something to keep an eye on as a marketer because that will directly affect your use of this technology and your ability to protect it.

Stephanie Wierwille (11:36.82)

Yes, it affects the day-to-day decisions of image generation, video generation, all of it. So yes, absolutely. So maybe from that, let’s kind of look ahead a little bit with our marketing hats on, which as we think about December, when we’ll be gathering at the Joe Public Retreat with Health System CMOs, there will be a lot more that’s progressed even in the next month. I think you’ve been talking about the AI winter.

And and that that actually means that we’re expecting to see quite a few announcements. So there may be several new things even where we’re sitting a month from now. But, you know, you’ve talked to all kinds of marketers about this topic. You’ve been really out there sitting down with folks across all industries and you’ve seen firsthand all the varying ways that marketers are leveraging AI or not. Right. And that they’re building towards it or not building towards an AI world. So

I would love to hear from you just sort of at the outset. What does that spectrum of usage look like among marketers? What are some of those reactions that you hear as you sit down with marketing leaders and CMOs across all industries? Where are you seeing folks be right now across the spectrum?

Paul Roetzer (12:50.47)

Yeah. So like a really simple way to think about adoption within an enterprise would be just three categories of understanding, piloting, scaling. So understanding is you’re aware of the technology and what it’s capable of doing. And you have some level of like comprehension and confidence in the topic. And ideally that’s not siloed within a few people, but actually like a whole marketing team or department is at that like deeper understanding level.

The next is piloting where you’re proactively seeking out and prioritizing use cases and ideally providing frameworks and guidance for how to do those use cases within your marketing team. And then scaling is you’re off and running. You’ve already proven the value. You don’t have to explain to the CFO why you’ve got $5,000 a month in licenses to co-pilot, whatever it is. Like you’re proven it. You have the support of the C-suite and the board.

And you’re working with legal, you’re working with IT, like everything is humming. Ideally, you’re putting education and training in place, change management. You’re looking one to two years out and start to think about the organizational structure. There are very, very, very few people in the scaling portion. So if we work backwards now, there’s very few organizations, very few marketing departments I have seen, and I’ve advised some healthcare companies. So there’s very few that I would say,

I actually struggled to come up with one for you that is in the scaling AI component. Piloting is where I see a lot of them, but it’s not in a structured way. Like you’re having some departments, some leaders, some teams that are racing forward and finding use cases, but it’s not within a structured plan. Like saying, okay, we’re going to sit down, we’re going to run a workshop. We’re going to identify these use cases. We’re going to run pilots for 90 days. We’ll measure before and after. No, it’s like I got you at GPT and I’m finding some ways to use it.

The company gave me co-pilot license and I’m trying to figure out how to do something other than write emails with it. Like that’s more of the piloting stage. I would say the vast majority of companies, especially in the healthcare space and certainly marketing are really just still trying to understand it. And like one of my metrics for this is I teach an intro to AI for marketers class. It’s free every month. I’ve been doing it since November of 2021. I think we just did the 42nd one or 43rd edition of this.

Paul Roetzer (15:12.838)

We don’t run ads for it and we get 12 to 1500 people every month signing up for an intro to AI class. So that tells me that’s where the market largely still is. Is there just trying to get the fundamentals and then we’ll get, you know, let’s say you get 30, 35 % attendance. So you’re talking about three to 500 people are actually showing up. We will get a hundred questions at the end of it. So we’ll do like 30 minutes of Q &A.

And it is these fundamental things. How do I work with legal on this? How do I prioritize my use cases? How do I teach my team? So you’re like, we’re seeing it. And then when I go meet with, you know, small groups of 15, 20 leaders in the marketing, it’s the same thing you’re hearing. So it’s kind of quantitative and qualitative in my world that lets me confidently say, you are not behind if you’re at the understanding.

And that’s okay. And I think so many marketers feel like they’ve fallen behind and they’re desperately trying to figure out how to catch up. If you just take the next steps, you’re probably actually more in the peer grip than you would think.

Stephanie Wierwille (16:21.814)

Well, that’s a really helpful framework, I think, for even folks to kind of think about their own organizations and where they are. Chris, given that you’re sitting down with health system CMOs all the time and you’re hearing from them, where would you say that the majority of the health system, hospital, and our audience is sitting in those three pillars?

Chris Bevolo (16:43.39)

Yeah, I think it maps almost exactly the way Paul just described it in the health system space. Typically, you know, we talk and we talked to this audience and they, think most of them would agree in most ways, health systems are behind other sectors when it comes to embracing and fully maximizing the disciplines of marketing and branding. there’s a lot of reasons for that. don’t need to get into, but in this case, I think it’s, it’s pretty close. I don’t think there’s anybody scaling. I’ve not heard or met anything.

It’s all about piloting and it’s kind of the usual suspects in our space, the leaders that we see in other situations like content marketing back in the day or digital further back in the day. It’s kind of the same people that are now out in front talking about this. So I think most are at the understanding stage. What I would add to the understanding stage is a little bit of the point of view people have about it. And I think that also maps to this space.

Paul, I don’t know if it’s different in other sectors, but health systems are a generally conservative sector in all ways. And of course they have to be because of what they do. But I think the main message this year that I’ve heard at conferences from CMOs is, hey, just kind of calm down, chill out. If it’s gonna have a massive impact, it’s years down the road. It’s a bit of a poo-pooing is what I would say.

Paul Roetzer (18:10.598)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bevolo (18:12.682)

I think Stephanie and I have a very different opinion of that. We’ve always had a different opinion of some of these things, think, having spent so much time into this space, but I wonder that will keep things slower in health system space, if that is right, if I’m right about that, and that’s as pervasive as I think. But I don’t know, Paul, if that also maps back out. If that kind of attitude around understanding, I think that really does impact

how far you can get and how quickly you can move.

Paul Roetzer (18:45.34)

Yeah, I think it’s a great point. And I think for me, there’s two obstacles that we try and fight against all the time. So one is this lack of AI literacy. And I’ll give you an example. Like there’s a company in the health space that we were doing some advising for, and they were slow playing this because I think the perception is that it’s like,

Co-pilot chat GPT or Google Gemini and IT doesn’t want us to have it or legal isn’t allowing it. And so they just stop and they’ll wait months without doing anything. And so we go in and we say, but you have 10 podcasts across the health network. Like there’s nothing legal or IT could object to you go getting descript having it transcribe these for you, having it cut clips up for you. Like everything is publicly available data. There’s no,

concerns around regulatory or privacy or anything like that. Like we could save you 50 to a hundred hours a month and improve the quality of those podcasts within 30 days. And it’s this lack of ability to realize that there’s more to this story than one of the three major large language model platforms, or that we have to wait 12 months for some consulting firm to charge us $10 million to train our own internal language model. Like

And I think that’s the problem is like people don’t realize there’s hundreds of use cases that have almost no risk related to them if you know to look for them. The second thing is human resistance to change. People underestimate the friction of getting people to do something differently, especially if they perceive it threatens their job. And those are two very real things that companies in all industries are dealing with, but certainly in the health industry.

Stephanie Wierwille (20:37.356)

Yeah, and go ahead.

Chris Bevolo (20:37.482)

I was just going to, sorry, Steph, I just have to add Paul, when we talked before, I shared this with you. I, one of the things I love about your podcast and your point of view is, I love that you don’t, you don’t mind letting the exasperation slip into here because I, think we feel that to a degree. And I think it is, you know, just to the point, the first point made in particular, where it’s just kind of like, come on already. Right. And so I just, I really appreciate that honesty about.

what you’re bringing. So sorry, Stephanie, go ahead. was gonna throw it.

Stephanie Wierwille (21:08.834)

No, I appreciate that too. think it’s really important to hear both the frustration and the optimism and you bring both of those. As you were just talking about, know, the podcast example, I think one thing that’s really been interesting about the tools that you’ve rolled out, Problems GPT and Campaigns GPT is it helps marketers understand that this is really about breaking down what are all the tasks that you do. This can affect every single task.

every single potential business problem and just helping people kind of break those down. So as you were talking through, you know, those kind of, I see those as sort of takeaways, right? That, hey, this can support and help you, even if you have the legal challenges to work through. so given that, that might be one of the things that maybe when you sit down with marketers that they’re surprised about. What else when you sit down with them or when you think about the group that we’ll be sitting down with in December?

What else do you think that might surprise them that maybe they’re not thinking about every day that could really impact their teams, their organizations, their roles?

Paul Roetzer (22:15.014)

Yeah, I mean, at the top of my list is probably, you know, so many people are overwhelmed and struggling to adapt to what we have today to like take GPT-4-0, which is their current most powerful model. You know, I haven’t looked at the news this morning as of today, like it was, Claude, Google Gemini, whatever you take and

We’re all in 2025 planning. I’m sitting here, have on my big screen in front of me, I have my campaign center for 2025, because I function as our lead strategist. So I’m devising what are all the core campaigns we’re going to be running next year. And I’m looking at a list of 50 campaigns. And so I can sit here and I can plan for those campaigns next year within the confines of what I know to be true about today’s technology. But we already know advancements are coming.

that we will get GPT-5. It might not be in December, but it might be early next year. We’re gonna get the next version of Google Gemini, the next version of Meta’s Llama. We’re gonna get more powerful models. And so I think that’s a really abstract thing for CMOs to think about. They’re having enough trouble finding ways to infuse today’s AI technology into what they do and to know that tomorrow’s is gonna have better reasoning capabilities, better planning capabilities.

These, this idea of an AI agent that can do five, 10, 20 steps of a process for you is going to start to become more real. I don’t know many CMOs that are conceiving of that. And that Stephanie, to your point is like jobs, GPT campaigns, GPT in particular that we built, those were designed to future proof things to actually look out ahead and say, Hey, today AI can help you in these ways. But as these models advance.

It’s going to be able to help you in those ways. And so I think like for me, that’s what I’m going to do with my 50 campaigns is I’m going to run them through campaigns, GPT and say, okay, do I need to hire five people next year? Or can I just hire three maybe and use these tools more efficient? And so I look at everything not as can I get rid of some staff? Like that is the wrong mentality. This, this should be a growth mentality for every company saying, Hey, rather than 50,

Paul Roetzer (24:34.34)

I’ve got instead let of anybody go, I’m going to use AI for help with like 20 % of this. I can, I can add 10 more campaigns next year that we wouldn’t have done. I mean, I’ll launch that new podcast or I’ll do that new blog series or I’ll launch these new nurturing camp, whatever it is. So I always have that sandbox of other things we can do. And then I think through hires and I think through current staffing to align with where I believe the AI is going to go within the next roughly 12 months. Cause anything beyond that, we’re just guessing.

Stephanie Wierwille (25:02.37)

Yeah, and you’ve said many times these models are the worst ones we’ll ever get, right? So we have to be thinking about the future, not just today. Chris, as you consider our space specifically, how does that track for you? Where do you think there are opportunities for CMOs as they build towards that future? And you are the future person, right? Your mind is always in the future, Chris.

Paul Roetzer (25:23.186)

Thinking about it every day.

Chris Bevolo (25:23.98)

That’s why I get the frustration, right? I think what Paul just said goes back a little bit to what we talking about of the kind of conservative poo poo, it’s not going to be that big of a deal. I think that’s just really a lack of imagination because it is grounded in what you see today. And so people may say like, well, I can’t just like feed this to chat GPT and have it spit out a blog post and put it out there like it, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, well, that’s now right.

And so I think that’s what people will be surprised at is if they just would think beyond what is today and have some imagination. I’ll give you an example just came up in our conversation earlier. So Paul, you were talking about copyright law and how that’s a little bit of a governor right now on the expansion of AI, but that governor could be taken right off. Think about that related to something like privacy, a very adjacent kind of thing.

given what’s gonna come in the next four years, privacy of data, privacy of just personal privacy is not something that’s prioritized by the current administration. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think HIPAA could go away. I really don’t. If the current environment is regulations bad and we’re gonna go back as far as we can, I think there’s a lot of people on the tech side that would say HIPAA’s holding us back.

We can’t really maximize the use of AI or other technologies to advance medicine because we’ve got to worry about this regulation. So just that’s what I’m talking about. Like that leads to that leads to that. I don’t think that’s a crazy concept that HIPAA could go away. Now just think about that in our world. If HIPAA goes away, what that would mean. Forget about like what it means for patients and.

and individuals, right? I’m not going to go there. I mean, from the ability to use AI that would strip another governor right out of there. So that’s the thing I wished I heard and saw more in our space. Again, I think it’s part and parcel to the nature of the folks here because they have to be conservative. They, you know, these organizations are helping people with life and death situations every day. They can’t be crazy. They can’t be, you know, way out on a limb on things. But that doesn’t translate to all parts of the business.

Chris Bevolo (27:47.24)

And I wish I heard more of that kind of thinking.

Stephanie Wierwille (27:51.82)

Yeah, that that I just think that’s so important, right? To be considering all the scenarios scenario planning of what could happen. And it doesn’t mean that, hey, if 10 % of it plays out, that’s huge, right? That’s a that’s a huge shift and something to be really, really prepared for. So that’s the that’s what those that are maybe even in the piloting and scaling stages are and should be thinking about. So let’s just transition here to our last piece, which is as we think about

those really across any stage, but I guess really starting with the majority of folks, the majority of CMOs, the majority of marketers that are really in that understanding and piloting stages. So at the beginning of this process, which Paul, as you’ve said is okay. It’s okay if you’re at the beginning, right? We’re all at the beginning. This is the very beginning stages, even though there’s been a lot of progress in the AR world, we’re still at the beginning of this era. So let’s say that you’re a new CMO, you’re just starting your gig.

And you realize that your organization and your team has doing nothing in this area. Maybe some are using it in certain places, but really do not have a holistic plan. So what are the three things that you would tell your team to do? How would you encourage them to not just continue to understand, but to really start to run towards this stuff? What would you recommend?

Paul Roetzer (29:16.594)

Yeah, I mean, we kind of, like, this is five-step framework for scaling AI, and I’ll focus on the first three because I think, again, even if you’re the understanding, moving into the piloting phase, they’re so critical. So the first is internal education and training. You know, it could be as simple as having one attend an intro to AI class, or it could be more formal, where you actually, like, put some courses and programs in place.

an AI council for your marketing team. So have people raise their hands who want to be a part of figuring this out, like engage them in the process of solving a lot of these unknowns. And then the third is, generative AI policies and responsible AI principles. So people on your team, if nothing has been done yet, they don’t know if they’re allowed to use chat GPT. They don’t know what data they can put into it. They don’t know if they do use chat GPT to write something, if they have to disclose that they did it.

They don’t know if they’re working with outside agency partners to ask them if they’re using generative AI to do the things. So like, it’s very important we put these kind of guidelines or guardrails in place so that people have the freedom to innovate with these tools. But if they have no guidance whatsoever on what they’re allowed to be doing, they don’t know whether they can use images they create with Meta to put in the social shares or put on the blog posts or in the company decks.

They don’t know whether to reply with emails using Gemini and Google. Like they have no idea. And so you have to give them these frameworks. education, council, policies and principles would be like, everyone should do those things going into 2025.

Stephanie Wierwille (30:51.286)

What I love about that is it’s very, you give very specific things people can do, right? Very specific, step one, two, three, here’s your to-do list to get started. And then, yes, yes.

Paul Roetzer (31:00.346)

and do them simultaneous. We don’t have to wait like three months, three months, three months. Like all these can start tomorrow.

Chris Bevolo (31:03.103)

You

Stephanie Wierwille (31:05.93)

Yes, and I think one thing that I take from that overall, you when I think about that to do list over overall, it’s not just about the understanding of the tools. It’s also about thinking about the people, the processes, the culture, the change management, to your point about people. People don’t know what, you know, what they’re allowed and not allowed to do. So that’s, that’s critical. Chris, anything that you would add here as we wrap any, any last takeaways that you have?

Chris Bevolo (31:32.586)

Yeah, I just think that last point is so important. It may sound counterintuitive, especially coming from me or Paul or you Stephanie to say like, Hey, the first thing you should do is lay down a set of policies and procedures. And it sounds like the opposite of what I was just ranting about a little bit ago of like, you know, think bigger and down the line. But there’s a consultant that I followed forever in the marketing space. His name’s David Baker and I’ll never forget him saying, yeah, so good Paul, you know, David. And he used to say,

Paul Roetzer (31:53.19)

David’s great. yeah.

Chris Bevolo (31:58.004)

A lot of people think process is the enemy of creativity. In fact, it’s the opposite process is what frees you up because you don’t have to worry about all those things. And you can now go wherever you need to go within that process. And think it’s exactly this. That’s exactly the case here with AI words, setting in place parameters. So everybody knows what they can and can’t do that will free people up as opposed to now where you’re have people going off the deep end or people just frozen because they don’t know. So

I just think that’s a great point to leave with.

Stephanie Wierwille (32:29.974)

All right, so I know we’ve covered a lot of ground today. We’ve talked about politics and the election results and legal and copyright and process and tools and all the things. So this is again, just a teaser for what’s coming in December. And I’m really excited, Paul, to get into it even more with you when we sit down at the JetPublic retreat.

Paul Roetzer (32:49.094)

Yeah, I’m really looking forward to it. love the conversation and it got me excited to hear what the people in the room are going to want to talk about. So I’m really looking forward to it.

Stephanie Wierwille (32:57.464)

Yes, that’s really where the great conversation comes as well as the reactions we get in the room. I think that’s what the Joe Public Retreat does so well is being able to have those conversations. And hopefully debate, I hope we can get into some spiciness and debate in the room. That will be great. Chris looks like, yeah.

Paul Roetzer (33:12.274)

Just not on politics.

Chris Bevolo (33:13.836)

Well, we go everywhere that Joe public retreats. What’s amazing about it, the things that people say in there, you got competitors, you know, of each other in the room. And it’s kind of like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens at the retreat stays there and people just really roll up their sleeves and say what they think. And I, you know, this is a teaser. mean, we’re to get 90 minutes of Paul. So I think it’s just going to be phenomenal to really dig deep with that group. They’re going to love it.

I know I’m gonna love it. So really, really appreciate you being there, Paul, and being with us today.

Paul Roetzer (33:47.558)

Yeah, thanks to both of you for having me and for listening to the podcast.

Chris Bevolo (33:51.615)

Absolutely.

Stephanie Wierwille (33:51.67)

So for anybody listening, if you want to join, you want to get 90 minutes of Paul and you haven’t registered yet, you can still do that. We have a couple spots left. You can learn more at jopublic2030.com or you can just shoot us an email at nonormalatbpthealthcare.com and we will get you signed up.

And with that, thank you to everybody listening and please give Paul’s show a listen. If you’re not already following the artificial intelligence show, you really need to make it part of your weekly routine. And until next time, don’t be satisfied with the normal. Don’t be satisfied with a non AI team. Push that no normal, push into all the generative AI things and we’ll talk to you next time.